[iddmax]

Looking at a box Borg 63/68 with .88 undivided. I found a turbine housing off a a3k that had a 65mm turbine and is .85 a/r. Just wondering if this housing is the same as algae,kronic187 and others are running on this turbo. I have also been told that the housing and the center section both need machined. Please help

 

[tcdid]

Yes they would both need machined to work. You'd be better off just spending the extra and getting the divided .91 or even down to the divided .80.

 

[lostnwalmart]

The divided .83 is a machine s250 housing which is commonly referred to as a .80. The .85 can be machined fairly easily turbine wise not sure about center housing though.

 

[iddmax]

anybody know how the t4 .91 a/r spools as a single, i know the .88 undivide is horrible!!Just don't want to spend $1400+ for turbo when you can get the box borg for around $600!!!

 

[Richard LeBar]

anybody know how the t4 .91 a/r spools as a single, i know the .88 undivide is horrible!!Just don't want to spend $1400+ for turbo when you can get the box borg for around $600!!!

If you are referring to the t4 .91 divided as compared to the t4 .88 undivided

a couple first gen guys on here are/have run them. They spool fairly slow but run quite cool. I would think the divided housing would spool quicker, but not by much.

I wonder how much it would cost to just buy a box stock BW 63/68 and just fork the cash for a t3 .80 housing from somewhere?

 

[86burbguy]

Save your self all the guessing and go with a turbo already intended for your truck.
As single with out a lot of fuel, you will want a divided housing or it won't spool well.

I am a machinist and went down the "save a buck" and peice it together road. I found I would have order different parts from different places, with out any warranty and hope every thing would work. By the time I added up cost plus time and trouble there was very little savings and no warranty. So I went with the turbo in my sig, bolted in on and it works well and I have the peace of mind that if some thing fail it will be covered.

Yes it is possible to save a buck, but having some thing done right the first time is worth the extra money, at least for me.

 

[estrada5.9]

A .91 housing would be pretty slick with a spool flange.

 

[tcdid]

The divided will spool much faster than the undivided. The .91 with a spool flange would be an awesome spooler!

 

[iddmax]

I agree it would be awesome with a spool flange, but the only reason I'm lookin at the box 63/68 is because of price. If I got a t4 manifold, spool flange and turbo its gonna be around 1800-2k and that kind a defeats the purpose of budget bw turbo, since I can get a 63/68 14cm gated from Ed or DAP for 1400 or so. I kind of been waitin for DAP to have the screaming eagle with a non gated t3 and see want they want for it!!I know with the t4 and spool flange it will flow a lot more on top but I mostly just want it for a funny dd and occasional towing turbo, not pulling or racing. I don't know what to do!!!!!!!n

 

[TB1]

I priced a brand new .8 wastegated T3 housing it was $550 bare no wastegate cover or controller. I also asked ED about the cost to machine a housing and Chris told me it`s around $100 if it needs the mounting bore enlarged and to machine for a bigger exhaust wheel. If you can get the .85 housing for cheap its worth it.

 

[jkidd]

I agree it would be awesome with a spool flange, but the only reason I'm lookin at the box 63/68 is because of price. If I got a t4 manifold, spool flange and turbo its gonna be around 1800-2k and that kind a defeats the purpose of budget bw turbo, since I can get a 63/68 14cm gated from Ed or DAP for 1400 or so. I kind of been waitin for DAP to have the screaming eagle with a non gated t3 and see want they want for it!!I know with the t4 and spool flange it will flow a lot more on top but I mostly just want it for a funny dd and occasional towing turbo, not pulling or racing. I don't know what to do!!!!!!!n

Keep in mind our Screaming eagles are 100% Genuine Borg Warner with no modifications. The turbine housing is a prototype we have to order from BW and is already made the correct way, not by getting a cheaper housing with smaller ports and then machining it to fit a larger wheel than what it was designed for.arty018:


Working on adapters for the non gated versions. for .91 and .83

We are also working on a BW 59mm compressor with NWG .80 T3 housing that will land in the middle of the HX35/40 and the Super B for under $1000

 

[86burbguy]

That's what I would do if I were you...
Get some thing that will work the first time.

 

[Algae Eater]

I'm very partial to the .85a/r over the .80, or .91 - and I'm sure everybody knows by now to stay away from the .88a/r.

The .91 is too big for a 62 or a 63 IMO. I know it was recommended WITH the spool-flange, but then it gets pricey.

I frickin love the spool-up of my 62/68/.85. It truly is almost like stock.
It's easy to build 10PSI boost by 1250RPM w/ it. Especially after I added turbo & manifold blankets (from Levi at CompD) and bigger injectors.

My 5x12's wouldn't spool it as well as my 5x14's do. And stock DV's weren't great at spooling it either. But with 024's, 5x14's and blankets, it got awesome... before that it would build 10PSI by about 1500RPM.

My new truck (96 5-speed) is all stock and it doesn't spool as well!!
It needs some minor AFC adjustments to make it better. Somebody F'd with the starwheel.

But anyhow, I like the non-gated .85 better than any other housing and it was recommended by Weston (Smokem/SDX) as the best housing for a 62 or 63.
He told me that nobody would listen and it's true. I think there is ONE person who bought a 63/68 w/ a .85.. so there is nobody else on this forum with a 62/68/.85 other than me. And I'm telling you it's a monster turbo.

I would put it up against a 63/68/14cm2 (.80a/r) any day of the week.
The .85 flows better than a 14 and it spools way better... like a 12 (.70a/r) basically.

 

[jkidd]

the .85 housing is from an s200 that has to be cut and chopped to make work if I am thinking of the correct housing.

I think there is a misunderstanding of what a wastegate will do for your drive pressure and the turbo. It opens up and is like a spillway to get air out so it does not have to go through the wheel. Now if you are tuned right, or at a static RPM there may not be as much of a need for a wastegate. The facts are that a wastegated housing allows more air to flow (about 30-40% more) than a non gated housing. So a .80 housing will be able to flow like a 1.10 housing and keep drive pressure down so you can get more HP and less stress on your head gasket.

WG turbos are more expensive as the housing is about 3-4x the cost of a NWG.

 

[Algae Eater]

the .85 housing is from an s200 that has to be cut and chopped to make work if I am thinking of the correct housing.

You are correct. It does need machining. ED does this for $100.

I think there is a misunderstanding of what a wastegate will do for your drive pressure and the turbo.

Not with me... I think internal WG's and external WG's are very different animals. And the internal WG's on the 12 and 14cm2 housings don't do as much as you're saying.

It opens up and is like a spillway to get air out so it does not have to go through the wheel. Now if you are tuned right, or at a static RPM there may not be as much of a need for a wastegate. The facts are that a wastegated housing allows more air to flow (about 30-40% more) than a non gated housing. So a .80 housing will be able to flow like a 1.10 housing and keep drive pressure down so you can get more HP and less stress on your head gasket.

I'm sorry to say it Jacob, (since I have nothing but respect) but I'm going to have to differ with you here.

I wish you'd give Weston a call and see what he has to say about this.
I'm not saying you haven't been around the block enough to know what's up... but Weston tends to disagree with other highly-respected turbo mfg's and well-known shops who work on hundreds of trucks.

His information directly contradicts what you're saying here and I'd love to resolve this once and for all.. I'm hoping this debate won't continue til the end of time.

I'm so sick of relaying what he has told me (and what I have seen work after running the .85 housing) and getting nothing but flack for it on this forum. Obviously you're not giving me flack, but I've gotten a lot of it for simply relaying Weston's information nearly word for word.
This is all straight from the horse's mouth, so you're not disagreeing with me, (or calling me confused) you're disagreeing with him.

But I still think you're the best dealer on this forum and please don't take offense to me coming at it like this. I really don't know how else to approach it... the debates are just getting old. That is why I've been off this forum for months and months. And that's what made Weston stop coming here (besides getting banned for dissing favored vendors).

Anyway, Weston is the guy who racers & pullers call when they can't seem to beat their competitor... he's consulting with many of the leaders in the country in racing and sled-pulling.. so his opinion to me is higher than dealers.
Sorry to have to put it that way. I'm just tired of arguing over exhaust housings when I'm just relaying his information.

EDIT:

I wanted to add that I have spent countless hours on the phone with Weston (he is very generous with his time that way and likes to educate) and have asked him about every possible turbo size and wheel combination and exhaust housing size, just to see what he would recommend in EVERY case. So I know what to say when people ask these questions. Since he's not here anymore, somebody needs to relay his expertise and be the voice of reason. It literally seems like he is the only one saying the things he said to me. That's why I get so many arguments for relaying HIS information... it's killing the messenger to disagree with me over exhaust housing recommendations.

I say go ask him if you think I'm wrong... and I don't mind at all, if any one of you wants to go and tell him I'm quoting him all over the place. He knows I have heard his side enough to not distort his words.
And when it comes to exhaust housings, he has definitely worked with just about every combination and seen them in action.

He has told me that the best 62 he has ever seen ran was a 62/68/.85 and that it will outperform any other 62/68.
It's not necessary to wastegate it since it has SUCH low drive compared to a 12 or a 14.

PPS:
I need to hook up a DP gauge, then dyno my truck again and be done with the arguing.
I run about 58-60PSI boost and have 5x14's, 024DV's and no plate (plus a 2095 plug). My top end is still quite clean and I have more power at 60PSI boost than 58PSI, which indicates DP isn't holding me back. So why would I need a wastegate???

 

[Algae Eater]

the .85 housing is from an s200 that has to be cut and chopped to make work if I am thinking of the correct housing.

I just thought of this... don't the .70 (12cm2) and .80a/r (14cm2) housings also have to be cut and chopped to fit a 68mm turbine wheel?
They're made for 65 and 71mm wheels, (EDIT: and 73.5mm) but isn't the .88a/r the only one made stock for a 68mm turbine wheel??

Please correct me if I'm mistaken about this.

 

[iddmax]

Just want to say i have nothing but respect for both of you and value both opinions. I appreciate your guys time and opinion, just tryin to decide whats best for me. I plan on head studs, 5x14, and some delivery valves. I believe that brainchild and kronic187 are runnin the 63/68/.85 maybe they will chime in. I like what i hear from algea about the .85 a/r but would like to hear what you think jacob because i respect both of you and the debating just makes us all more informed.

 

[Algae Eater]

Just want to say i have nothing but respect for both of you and value both opinions. I appreciate your guys time and opinion, just tryin to decide whats best for me. I plan on head studs, 5x14, and some delivery valves. I believe that brainchild and kronic187 are runnin the 63/68/.85 maybe they will chime in. I like what i hear from algea about the .85 a/r but would like to hear what you think jacob because i respect both of you and the debating just makes us all more informed.

You're absolutely right.. the debates do make us informed. Thanks for the reminder.
It's just that the exhaust housing debate is a dead-end street so far. Or a tail-chase is more like it.

I'm about ready to buy a 62/71/14 and a 64/71/14 and see how they fare on a dyno (back to back) alongside my 62/68/.85. With some street-tuning in between of course.

Unless something has changed since the time I talked to Jacob about this on the phone, he hadn't tried the .85a/r housing yet. So I'm not sure he can offer an opinion on how it compares to other housings. I'm sure if I'm mistaken, he'll set me straight.

I would love some witnesses.

All I know is that I've helped friends tune trucks with (and ridden in friends' trucks with) 62/65's, 62/71's and even a Silver 62 (ick!!) and I've run this turbo with two sets of injectors (5x12 and now 5x14) and 4 different sets of delivery valves and it's always been better than any other 62 I've seen.

I've had rides in a few trucks with 64/71's (SB Special) and they are BAD-A$$ turbos!!! But we're talking about 62's and 63's here.

I've never seen or tried a 63 ever.

 

[86burbguy]

I know Algae Eaters turbo spools great, but what makes that .85 housing perform so well? Is it of a different design than the other 14cm and 12 cm housings?

When some thing defies conventional wisdom there is usually a reason.

A 62/68 is an odd combo to start with, small compressor with a larger than normal hot side.
Does the smaller compressor spool faster than a 63 would, offsetting the lag to be expected with the larger hot side?

Would a 62/68/.85 spool faster than a 62/65/12 given equal fueling?
Would the 62/68/.85 make enough low end boost to be a good towing turbo- as compared to the more conventional 62/65/12?

 

[Algae Eater]

I know Algae Eaters turbo spools great, but what makes that .85 housing perform so well? Is it of a different design than the other 14cm and 12 cm housings?

Yes, the .85 is a *newer* design which both spools and flows.
The volute design is superior, due to the newer technology. There is a reason why ATS uses them on the Aurora 3000.
Does that answer the question? Because that's how Weston explained it to me.

When some thing defies conventional wisdom there is usually a reason.

Are you saying that there's usually a reason because conventional wisdom is usually right??
Just trying to understand. Regardless I don't see how it defies conventional wisdom as much as it isn't highly known.

A 62/68 is an odd combo to start with, small compressor with a larger than normal hot side.

Sorry but this isn't the case.
62/71's are just as common as 62/65's and they always have been.
The 62/68 is not a larger than normal hotside.
It's actually the opposite, it's the "happy medium" between the two extremes, both of which have drawbacks due to their extremity...

Meaning a 62/65 is as much of a mis-match as a 62/71.. and more people used to choose a 62/71 before the 62/68 was a known option.
So a 62/71 isn't even a "larger than normal hotside".
The II Silver 62/74 is a "larger than normal hotside".

A 3mm (or less) difference between the comp & turbine wheels is a mismatch.

Does the smaller compressor spool faster than a 63 would, offsetting the lag to be expected with the larger hot side?

There is no "lag to be expected" on a 62/68/.85.
A 62/68 (in most cases) will most definitely spool sooner than a 63/68.

EDIT: However, a 63/68/12 would probably spool a lil sooner than a 62/68/14. But it wouldn't be as "useful".
I would say a 62/68/.85 may spool as fast as a 63/68/12. And it will definitely flow more on top, so it's more useful.

Would a 62/68/.85 spool faster than a 62/65/12 given equal fueling?

No, definitely not.. but it doesn't spool slower-enough to say the 62/65 is the clear winner.
When you're building 10PSI boost by 1250RPM, that's about as close to stock as it gets.

Would the 62/68/.85 make enough low end boost to be a good towing turbo- as compared to the more conventional 62/65/12?

Sure it would.. like I said it makes 10PSI by 1250RPM.. I need to post video tomorrow. I will try to get a vid of my boost gauge with throttle inputs and you can tell me if it has any lag.

Whether the 62/65/12 will out-tow a 62/68/.85 would be affected by other things.. like gear-ratio / cruising RPM's for one.
On 4.10's I wouldn't say a 62/65 would be any better since you'd be cruising at a high enough RPM to cool things with both turbos pretty equally.

If you're towing and need to mash on it to pass, (or get on it for any other reason) a 62/65/12 will get hotter/quicker than a 62/68/.85

On 3.54 gears however, I would say a 62/65/12 might run a tad cooler up a hill at 55-60MPH in 4th, (at, around, or below 1500RPM) than a 62/68/.85.
.. but in that case you should downshift to OD-OFF (or 4th on a 5-speed) instead of pulling low RPM's up a hill... even with a stock turbo. It's just not flowing enough air to cool things and it's hard on the drivetrain. So it's not necessary in the first place.

Timing has an effect on how well a truck will tow. Stock or near timing levels will have more oomph down low and tow better. Unless you have low gears (4.10) and spin high RPMs and then more timing could help.