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600hp street toy/towing work horse?

4894 Views 15 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  jigabop
Well I've been reading for weeks now mainly on compound turbo setups. I'm a little ways away from pulling the trigger probably be capable first half of the coming year, worse case later part of that same year. In my reading though most guys with compounds are shooting for "big" power (600-800hp) with some light towing OR a strict big weight towing rig with rarely posted power numbers. A lot also say that 500hp is the peak for towing anything fairly heavy in weight.

My ideal goal is in the 600s hp wise and be able to tow a 36 or so foot flatbed gooseneck car trailer that would haul two "mini-trucks" I'm assuming 3,000 to 5,000 lbs for a single truck so 6-10k in payload plus truck/trailer weight.

My question is then, is it possible? Theoretically I would think it is with enough air to keep EGTs cool then anything is possible.

Then two what combination to go with? I'd like to build my own as much as possible. I'm not much of a fabricator so a completley self made kit is a little out of the question. I wouldn't mind going with the secondary turbo first running it and gradually moving into compounds also. I understand too that companies like BD have put time and research into developing their kits BUT the way I see it they have to design their product to suit a wider range of customers needs than just one. Which I can respect but I feel my goal is fairly...unique.

My parts list so far consist of:

Tst pm3 or blue chip fms still undecided (I like that the blue chip has defueling and other protection features.)

Budget valve springs
Arp head studs
Pushrods (since ill be in there)
Crazy Carl's piping kit
7x.012 cpp sac injectors

Turbo wise the two I keep coming back to are either an hx35/s475 combo or D-tech 62 over s475. I'm not afraid to switch things up and try something not so common just looking for some insight/advice/recommendations. I'm fairly new to all of this and in particular compounds and what comes with power over 500hp so I'm interested to learn and hear what the more experienced crowd has to say. So if I'm missing parts or looking at the wrong parts or anything of that nature I'm up for the knowledge. Thanks in advance!
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The cooling system limits you. If you have nice tuning and lower egt's you might be able to tow with that much power. I think ~5-600hp is a safe limit for max towing power.

So just make sure your cooling system is in good shape. I here oil temps can be a bigger problem also.
U could do a 4 row radiator to help things cool down....
I appreciate it guys! Now what about setting up some compounds that will tow well and get me into the 600 horse range? I've read about some setups and the power they make but not sure if spool up will be quick enough for towing?
To still tow.I think a 62/??/12 or possibly 14 is the biggest you wanna go to Heep tow DD manners? Don't hold me to that though but all my reading for a VP truck that's usually the biggest secondary you want in compounds
keep the secondary small! hx35, 341, 351, s300g will keep you in boost all the time. Larger secondarys will lag when rpms get low causing smoke/egt issues.
Ideally, an s300g/s472b would be the best investment, but you could use your hx35 to keep costs down, just understand the hx35 will limit top-end.
Also- most will agree 450hp is the max you can safely tow with. Above that, even if you keep egts down, the cooling system and and driveline will be taxed heavily and any weak spots will put you on the side of the road.
Not to say you cant HAVE 900hp and still tow, just dont try to USE all of it when towing or you risk a bad day.
keep the secondary small! hx35, 341, 351, s300g will keep you in boost all the time. Larger secondarys will lag when rpms get low causing smoke/egt issues.
Ideally, an s300g/s472b would be the best investment, but you could use your hx35 to keep costs down, just understand the hx35 will limit top-end.
Also- most will agree 450hp is the max you can safely tow with. Above that, even if you keep egts down, the cooling system and and driveline will be taxed heavily and any weak spots will put you on the side of the road.
Not to say you cant HAVE 900hp and still tow, just dont try to USE all of it when towing or you risk a bad day.

If I'm not mistaken I should have an hy35 not the hx? I would go look at tag on the turbo but ironically I blew out my rear end Thursday night pulling a 20ft gooseneck horse trailer. But looks like the seal on the front of my diff was leaking and I never saw a wet spot. But oh well I guess back on topic here I am all for turning down fuel boxes and such to drop power to tow but eventually would like to build this truck to a point where I can tow with most if not all of 600hp mainly since most seem to say it can't be done
But oh well I guess back on topic here I am all for turning down fuel boxes and such to drop power to tow but eventually would like to build this truck to a point where I can tow with most if not all of 600hp mainly since most seem to say it can't be done
good luck. the cooling system will not support it.
If I'm not mistaken I should have an hy35 not the hx? I would go look at tag on the turbo but ironically I blew out my rear end Thursday night pulling a 20ft gooseneck horse trailer. But looks like the seal on the front of my diff was leaking and I never saw a wet spot. But oh well I guess back on topic here I am all for turning down fuel boxes and such to drop power to tow but eventually would like to build this truck to a point where I can tow with most if not all of 600hp mainly since most seem to say it can't be done
good luck. the cooling system will not support it.
correct. 02 auto = hy.
you experience with the rear is just a sample of what to expect when trying to tow @ 600hp.
jbayes is correct, the cooling system does not have the capacity to cool effectively if using 600hp steady. You can get away with using higher power some of the time as needed, but you'll find on long pulls that the engine/driveline starts to heat soak. You'll need to be aware of the strain on Ujoints, rear, trans, ect. Taxing the grease and oil in those components leads to potential stress failures as well.
Its all a package. It all has to work together. Dont forget if you can pull with 600hp, you have to be able to steer/stop with the speed/weight that power can get you to.:thumbsup:
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Now the cooling system and driveline is there not really a way to upgrade those parts to that level? Or is it to a point like for example, with the u joints to get the needed strength the u joints have to have so much meat on them you just can't fit them in our trucks?
That's why they make different yolks.
These trucks can be made to haul pretty heavy and be quite dependable, but it has been said often that you can have: fast, cheap, reliable, but never all 3 together.

Say the truck/engine were designed to handle 250hp/500lbft work 24hrs a day. Assume there is a 15% safety margin when the truck was new. most of the margin will dissipate over time as the truck ages.
Now double the work load. @ 500hp and 1000 ftlbs, the stock systems are maxed out and sketchy.
You want to go beyond even that. I have already done this. I have done a LOT of repairs and upgrades to accommodate the power I have and use it fairly comfortably.
I still dont try to haul 30k up a 5 mile 8* grade with the pedal on the mat. Its just not necessary.
Our trucks are simply not designed to out pull most semi trucks.
These trucks can be made to haul pretty heavy and be quite dependable, but it has been said often that you can have: fast, cheap, reliable, but never all 3 together.

Say the truck/engine were designed to handle 250hp/500lbft work 24hrs a day. Assume there is a 15% safety margin when the truck was new. most of the margin will dissipate over time as the truck ages.
Now double the work load. @ 500hp and 1000 ftlbs, the stock systems are maxed out and sketchy.
You want to go beyond even that. I have already done this. I have done a LOT of repairs and upgrades to accommodate the power I have and use it fairly comfortably.
I still dont try to haul 30k up a 5 mile 8* grade with the pedal on the mat. Its just not necessary.
Our trucks are simply not designed to out pull most semi trucks.
I'm quite alright with fast, expensive, and reliable. I've seen people try to build stuff, had a few experiences myself too. Always ends up being more expensive in the long run. I'm more interested in what all has to be done to reach the goal. Experiences at what breaks at enhanced power levels. I've only added MAYBE 60hp and ran into this little issue which I feel wasn't strictly caused by the programmer and such because it was an old seal that started it all. For instance the bigger yokes that's a great suggestion but I was hoping for more info maybe a suggested brand or size or even a place where I could go find out more on the topic and do the research myself? I'm not the most familiar with those components and what brands to look at and such. But I do believe in over engineering things as well to have the added strength and "insurance" I guess you could say.
I'd go on different sites like Cummins Performance Parts, Pure Diesel Power | Diesel Performance Parts | Diesel Power Chips, www.dieselautopower.com, and www.rollinsmokediesel.com and just brouse through and take in as much as you can. That will give you a good idea on what upgrades are available.
IIRC, the yolks/joints are called 1480. I went with traction bars to prevent axle wrap, and used synthetic lubes in the driveline as well as a finned extra capacity aluminum diff cover and heavy duty 1pc (some have 2 pcs) driveshaft to mate to the dana80 w/lsd and disc when I replaced the stock 70/open/drum.
go with the manton push rods :thumbsup: excellent quality and work great!

they are custom made on demand so you will need to provide the specs.

you want a set of 12

PN 304

3/8" .095" wall

11.45" OAL

10mm ball and cup ends

you will want to give them a call and do it over the phone, you can also tell them it's for a cummins 5.9L 24v and they should know the specs, but if they don't, I just listed them for you :thumbsup:

they take about a week to build them and ship them because you aren't their only customer lol they build push rods for tons of high performance engines ranging from your average performance grocery getter, to 10,000hp top fuel dragsters.
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