Would there be any reason i could remove the electronics from a turbo off a 6.7 and the somehow hold the waste gate shut by weld or whatnot. Or even better, use the factory electronics so i can have my turbo exhaust brake because all vgt turbos can act as an exhaust brake.
6.7 turbo on first gen?
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A servo or adjustable pneumatic valve would be a better way to go.
A guy on 1stgen.org is going to see whether a Cooling Mist DSP can read the turbo's shaft speed. If that works then a fully programmable system would be in reach for under $1000, depending on how it's done.
A guy on 1stgen.org is going to see whether a Cooling Mist DSP can read the turbo's shaft speed. If that works then a fully programmable system would be in reach for under $1000, depending on how it's done.
So what your saying is there is no solenoid or valve i can just hard wire with a switch in the dash so i can run it as an exhuast brake? Can i at least just run the turbo and remove the electronics? Or leave em on there and not plug em in?
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From what I gather, there is a rod coming out of the turbo that controls housing size. You could manually wire the housing size to where you want it? At the smallest it's going to be way too small.
The exhaust braking capability is done with a computer that calculates the smallest possible housing size without overspeeding the turbo. The turbo itself doesn't have any controls integrated into it; it's just a lever to pull.
That's how it's been described to me by FNSCHLAUD, anyways...
1stGen.org :: View topic - VGT turbo controller ideas?????
The exhaust braking capability is done with a computer that calculates the smallest possible housing size without overspeeding the turbo. The turbo itself doesn't have any controls integrated into it; it's just a lever to pull.
That's how it's been described to me by FNSCHLAUD, anyways...
1stGen.org :: View topic - VGT turbo controller ideas?????
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Begle, I know you have a laptop type deal to control your water injection and log data, could you possible load the vgt software for the turbo on the same kinda laptop deal and have it run that too. Although the foreseable problems are the event of a computer crash or power surge.
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3,404 Posts
Even better, I can use my water injection controller's tach input to read turbo shaft speed, and use the controller's 0-5 volt variable output to control a servo or pneumatic valve that will let me open and shut the turbo based on a programmable map.
I program the controller with the computer, and then the controller works autonomously.
FNSCHLAUD is currently the guinea pig for that project... He's got the turbo, and the valve and controller are on order.
If somebody gets that to work, then I'm ditching my HY35 pretty darn fast and looking for a VGT instead...
I program the controller with the computer, and then the controller works autonomously.
FNSCHLAUD is currently the guinea pig for that project... He's got the turbo, and the valve and controller are on order.
If somebody gets that to work, then I'm ditching my HY35 pretty darn fast and looking for a VGT instead...
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596 Posts
whats the size of the intake wheel?
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1,239 Posts
Begle1 - How ya gonna read the shaft speed ?
I'd thought of doing what you said but can't finger how to get an optical tach to work reliably in the intake...
Any thoughts ?
Also, what type controller do you have for your W/M and where did you get it ?
Gary - I read where the intake is a 60mm or 62mm ,,,,Not sure.
I'd thought of doing what you said but can't finger how to get an optical tach to work reliably in the intake...
Any thoughts ?
Also, what type controller do you have for your W/M and where did you get it ?
Gary - I read where the intake is a 60mm or 62mm ,,,,Not sure.
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Cowboy, think about the turbo. If it come complete, it allready has a sensor to read shaft speed inside of it. The tricky part is the wiring and writing program so your computer can read shaft speed, have it convert it to usefull information, process that information, and use that processed information to control a servo to control the vgt. I don't know how a vgt would respond to twins though. And so are something i eventually want to do. Probably more complex mapping of shaft speed and fuel delivery and what not. The only truck i know with vgt twins is the 6.4 ford. And they grape vine says they have turbo problems, although it didn't say if it was related to the vgt.
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p8ntballer152004
I agree..I also have 8 or 10 sensors laying around my place that need special voltages, special circuit requirements, and other odds and ends that make connecting them an engineering feat.
IF it already had some means of reading the shaft speed, you only need a simple counter circuit and a little math. I see a pulse, start counting in micro seconds. I see another pulse stop counting. Look up how many micro seconds = shaft speed.
Computers are good at that.
NOW - what is my throttle position, what WAS my throttle position - did it increase or decrease.
What is my current boost, what was my boost - did it increase or decrease....
Etc, etc,etc,etc.
Not impossible, but.....
As far as the Ford goes, the turbo is a parallel turbo and both sides are vnt. IF they're not synced - poof.
And that's the same thing that'll happen if you try a vnt as the primary turbo in a twin setup and don't have the variables close to right.
Begle1
I think you need to start with minimum boost - say 10 to 15 psi. Get good control under most conditions. Then up your boost slowly and again check the control. Slowly increasing the boost until you can reach the 40 - 45 psi you want.
Then you can start adding W/M, etc.to complicate matters again..
Honestly - sound like fun to me....But I've been told I have a weird sense of humor.:rof:rof:rof
I agree..I also have 8 or 10 sensors laying around my place that need special voltages, special circuit requirements, and other odds and ends that make connecting them an engineering feat.
IF it already had some means of reading the shaft speed, you only need a simple counter circuit and a little math. I see a pulse, start counting in micro seconds. I see another pulse stop counting. Look up how many micro seconds = shaft speed.
Computers are good at that.
NOW - what is my throttle position, what WAS my throttle position - did it increase or decrease.
What is my current boost, what was my boost - did it increase or decrease....
Etc, etc,etc,etc.
Not impossible, but.....
As far as the Ford goes, the turbo is a parallel turbo and both sides are vnt. IF they're not synced - poof.
And that's the same thing that'll happen if you try a vnt as the primary turbo in a twin setup and don't have the variables close to right.
Begle1
I think you need to start with minimum boost - say 10 to 15 psi. Get good control under most conditions. Then up your boost slowly and again check the control. Slowly increasing the boost until you can reach the 40 - 45 psi you want.
Then you can start adding W/M, etc.to complicate matters again..
Honestly - sound like fun to me....But I've been told I have a weird sense of humor.:rof:rof:rof
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1,239 Posts
:thud:
I forgot to mention the fun trying to control a stepper motor that might - or might not - require several complete revolution to move as little as 1/4" :w:
I forgot to mention the fun trying to control a stepper motor that might - or might not - require several complete revolution to move as little as 1/4" :w:
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2,370 Posts
VEfreak...
From what I've read the 6.7L VGT turbo has no wastgate. The variable geometry does away with the need for one.
From what I've read the 6.7L VGT turbo has no wastgate. The variable geometry does away with the need for one.
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3,404 Posts
VGT's have Hall sensors on them that output a square wave; one square for each revolution.
The Cooling Mist SMART DMS has a counter input that counts square waves up to 20,000 per second.
Theoretically those two items work together to read shaft RPM. The theory should be within a couple weeks.
If RPM is over a specified level, expand the exhaust housing. If RPM is below a specified level, constrict the exhaust housing.
If boost level is above a certain level, expand housing. If EGT's are above a certain level, expand housing.
Programming it with Cooling Mist's questionable software will be the fun part, provided that the speed sensor works. I have a hunch that's going to take some ingenuity.
Who here has experience with Mealy machine feedback loops?
The Cooling Mist SMART DMS has a counter input that counts square waves up to 20,000 per second.
Theoretically those two items work together to read shaft RPM. The theory should be within a couple weeks.
If RPM is over a specified level, expand the exhaust housing. If RPM is below a specified level, constrict the exhaust housing.
If boost level is above a certain level, expand housing. If EGT's are above a certain level, expand housing.
Programming it with Cooling Mist's questionable software will be the fun part, provided that the speed sensor works. I have a hunch that's going to take some ingenuity.
Who here has experience with Mealy machine feedback loops?
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870 Posts
What on earth is a Mealy machine?
I do have a lot of experiance with servo loops in metalcutting machines (CNC's) and other such stuff. And stepper drivers.
lol and the thread lives. I don't think anything ever came of stand alone VGT's as far as i know. But i know that some guy, somewhere is working on it. Oh and a quick google search rendered this article on mealy machines
Mealy machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think some simple if then programming could render a usable VGT control program. it of course would have to be reifined over time and experience. What would it be done in? C+? assembly even? Is anyone familiar with hex? lol
Mealy machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think some simple if then programming could render a usable VGT control program. it of course would have to be reifined over time and experience. What would it be done in? C+? assembly even? Is anyone familiar with hex? lol
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870 Posts
I think I'll stick to PLC's (Programmable Logic Controller) and servo loops, with maybe an operational amplifier or two. No Mealy for me, thank you.
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