Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this month's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2005 3500 single axle with the nv5600. The mods are a 165 gph air dog, aftermarket 4 inch turbo back with muffler, egt and boost gauge, and cold air intake, fixing to install a south bend dual disk capable of holding 550hp and a smarty s06 pod. I'll tow mostly a 12k pound trailer but every once in awhile a 20k pounder. I want to put about 500 horse in it and not have to worry about crazy egts and that way the clutch will still be able to hold it. Open to any thoughts at all rather it be hot tunes on stock injectors and a bigger turbo or bigger injectors with a bigger turbo. I'd sell the smarty and buy mm3 if need be also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
Could definitely push 450 with good tuning, a 62/74?/12 would probably be a good turbo or compounds with a 475 over the stocker would make a good set up
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Could definitely push 450 with good tuning, a 62/74?/12 would probably be a good turbo or compounds with a 475 over the stocker would make a good set up
I wondered about compounds but would rather do a single if I could to save money but whichever is better the money would be worth. Would it be ok to stay with the smarty or should I do the mm3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Could definitely push 450 with good tuning, a 62/74?/12 would probably be a good turbo or compounds with a 475 over the stocker would make a good set up
I wondered about compounds but would rather do a single if I could to save money but whichever is better the money would be worth. Would it be ok to stay with the smarty or should I do the mm3
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,501 Posts
Custom tuning and compounds will be the most bang for the buck. It would easier with injectors but the stockers if they are in good shape will make you 500. A big single since you have a manual would work also but you won't have the range compounds have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
For only 500 a modded stock turbo 62/65 and a good udc tune should run extremely well and stay very reliable. Compounds are great but for only 500 probably overkill and a large chunk of cash. If you think you will want more power later then definitely go compounds. You could get a drop in s362/68/14 as well from agp they are good prices. I don't think I would try and shoot for 500 on a stock turbo it will be hot and not too safe. I would probably switch from the box s06 though, and go with mm3 or hp tuners first you might find 450 like said above is more than enough and it really does change everything about your truck in a great way.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
For only 500 a modded stock turbo 62/65 and a good udc tune should run extremely well and stay very reliable. Compounds are great but for only 500 probably overkill and a large chunk of cash. If you think you will want more power later then definitely go compounds. You could get a drop in s362/68/14 as well from agp they are good prices. I don't think I would try and shoot for 500 on a stock turbo it will be hot and not too safe. I would probably switch from the box s06 though, and go with mm3 or hp tuners first you might find 450 like said above is more than enough and it really does change everything about your truck in a great way.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Thankyou I will definitely keep that in mind. I have 150k miles on the stock injectors. I don't know how much longer they will last but plan on replacing them when they do go out or do it anyway in the near future then I'll do the mm3 and turbo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
If you are planning to do injectors anyway, I would get BBI 0.5s and the on3 compound kit with custom tuning. I’m pretty sure that you can run the same tuning as the MM3 (single tune only, no switch on the fly) with your Smarty. The compound turbo setup will do wonders to keep egt’s nice and low while towing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RedDuke

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If you are planning to do injectors anyway, I would get BBI 0.5s and the on3 compound kit with custom tuning. I’m pretty sure that you can run the same tuning as the MM3 (single tune only, no switch on the fly) with your Smarty. The compound turbo setup will do wonders to keep egt’s nice and low while towing.
Ok. Could I just run the smarty hot and do the compounds for right now then do the other injectors when the stockers go out or will it not be able to spool very well with out better injectors
 
Joined
·
3,161 Posts
Ok. Could I just run the smarty hot and do the compounds for right now then do the other injectors when the stockers go out or will it not be able to spool very well with out better injectors

Yes, if you go with compounds on the smaller size, ie. towing compounds. Stock injectors will be fine.

I never ran my 2004.5 with stock injectors and the small twins, but my injectors are only 50HP DDP's.
Even with my small injectors I turn my Smarty down when towing our 10k lbs 5th wheel all summer to about 450RWHP.
At this level the trucks pulls super nice with EGT's never a worry and engine water temp is fine.

If I turn up the Smarty, then I have to worry about EGT's and water temps.
On my truck, 450RWHP is about the limit of the coolant capacity (edit: cooling system) when towing in a hot summer.

Just for comparison, my truck has done 580RWHP Smarty S06 TNT level 7, numerous years ago.
It's totally fun to drive the truck around town with this tune but I would never tow at this level.

It all changes when you start towing.
And if your truck has minimal muffling and no cat, plan on changing that when you start towing!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,501 Posts
On my truck, 450RWHP is about the limit of the coolant capacity when towing in a hot summer.
This is the the biggest hurdle to trying to run at a 500 HP level for any length of time, the engine and oil cooling systems won't handle the constant duty. A solid 450\900 tune will move anything you should have hooked to it, and most things you shouldn't, very well without venturing into coolant, oil, and EGT temp red zones.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
8,487 Posts
Stock over s475/96/1.15AR will support 600-650HP and spool quick. If towing is your intended use and you have the extra $1500 go compounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yes, if you go with compounds on the smaller size, ie. towing compounds. Stock injectors will be fine.

I never ran my 2004.5 with stock injectors and the small twins, but my injectors are only 50HP DDP's.
Even with my small injectors I turn my Smarty down when towing our 10k lbs 5th wheel all summer to about 450RWHP.
At this level the trucks pulls super nice with EGT's never a worry and engine water temp is fine.

If I turn up the Smarty, then I have to worry about EGT's and water temps.
On my truck, 450RWHP is about the limit of the coolant capacity when towing in a hot summer.

Just for comparison, my truck has done 580RWHP Smarty S06 TNT level 7, numerous years ago.
It's totally fun to drive the truck around town with this tune but I would never tow at this level.

It all changes when you start towing.
And if your truck has minimal muffling and no cat, plan on changing that when you start towing!
Ok so if I go ahead and get the compounds and tow about 15k pounds what setting should I leave my smarty at and I guess I better do head studs?
What do you mean "if your truck has minimal muffling and no cat plan on changing that when you start towing!"
 
Joined
·
3,161 Posts
Ok so if I go ahead and get the compounds and tow about 15k pounds what setting should I leave my smarty at and I guess I better do head studs?
What do you mean "if your truck has minimal muffling and no cat plan on changing that when you start towing!"

Just set the Smarty at low HP levels and work your way up. Your EGT gauge and water temp gauge will tell you what your limits are when towing.
Once you start playing with the Smarty, you will have to try numerous things to get a feel for it and the changes in how the engine runs.

There are lots of guys that crank up the Smarty to 11 but usually they are not towing or they have a spare engine ready to go.

I recommend to do headstuds, injectors and valvesprings all at the same time if possible.
The top of the engine has to come apart to do all 3. Installing headstuds without the injectors in place is easier and safer.
One shot and it's all done.

Once you start towing, a straight piped or minimally muffled CR Cummins will drone like crazy when towing.
Some guys don't mind this but it's not for me or my family when towing the RV.

My twins did not quiet down the truck one bit, contrary to popular belief.
I went from 1 small straight thru muffler and no cat, to 2 larger straight thru mufflers and re-installed the cat.
Exhaust is free-flowing, legal and quiet when towing up a mountain with the trailer.
In my experience the cat made zero difference to power, EGT's and fuel mileage.

Of course an exhaust brake is worth every penny when towing. Hey, it's only money!
With twins, a remote mounted ex brake works totally fine.

If you look at my signature, you can see that my truck is also an NV5600 and set up for towing.
I don't recommend the BD short shift kit on your NV5600 and I don't recommend an aftermarket intercooler.
If your 2005 has a plastic intercooler, start shopping for a good OEM metal replacement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I
Just set the Smarty at low HP levels and work your way up. Your EGT gauge and water temp gauge will tell you what your limits are when towing.
Once you start playing with the Smarty, you will have to try numerous things to get a feel for it and the changes in how the engine runs.

There are lots of guys that crank up the Smarty to 11 but usually they are not towing or they have a spare engine ready to go.

I recommend to do headstuds, injectors and valvesprings all at the same time if possible.
The top of the engine has to come apart to do all 3. Installing headstuds without the injectors in place is easier and safer.
One shot and it's all done.

Once you start towing, a straight piped or minimally muffled CR Cummins will drone like crazy when towing.
Some guys don't mind this but it's not for me or my family when towing the RV.

My twins did not quiet down the truck one bit, contrary to popular belief.
I went from 1 small straight thru muffler and no cat, to 2 larger straight thru mufflers and re-installed the cat.
Exhaust is free-flowing, legal and quiet when towing up a mountain with the trailer.
In my experience the cat made zero difference to power, EGT's and fuel mileage.

Of course an exhaust brake is worth every penny when towing. Hey, it's only money!
With twins, a remote mounted ex brake works totally fine.

If you look at my signature, you can see that my truck is also an NV5600 and set up for towing.
I don't recommend the BD short shift kit on your NV5600 and I don't recommend an aftermarket intercooler.
If your 2005 has a plastic intercooler, start shopping for a good OEM metal replacement.
I gotcha now. Thankyou for all that. Hopefully I can start the build in the near future
 

·
Mountain Man Customs
Joined
·
2,665 Posts
I read through this thread and could have sworn it must be replies from 2011 or something? Nope. Apparently guys still think you need compounds to tow at 500hp with a common rail.

Stock fuel will turn a 62/68 with a gated .8 t3 housing just fine. Box Borg SXE no need for anything custom.

I towed 15-20k for several years on a 750hp tune with no cooling/overheat problems. In the rocky mountains. So I'm not sure what that comment is about either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,103 Posts
On3 Compound setup kit is cheaper than most upgraded single turbos bolts in and will do everything better at 500 hp ..You sound like your from 2001 with your run a single and make 750 daily with only a new clutch and turbo.... it will run great...

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
I read through this thread and could have sworn it must be replies from 2011 or something? Nope. Apparently guys still think you need compounds to tow at 500hp with a common rail.

Stock fuel will turn a 62/68 with a gated .8 t3 housing just fine. Box Borg SXE no need for anything custom.

I towed 15-20k for several years on a 750hp tune with no cooling/overheat problems. In the rocky mountains. So I'm not sure what that comment is about either.
It’s not that you can’t do it on a single. It’s the fact that compounds will do it better and cleaner.
 

·
Mountain Man Customs
Joined
·
2,665 Posts
Anyone who believes you should use compounds for 500hp, has been sold compounds for 500hp. Good luck OP.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top