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5.9L Turbo Shoot Out

25500 Views 98 Replies 36 Participants Last post by  CGD
So those of you that read Diesel Power Magazine have already read (and many of you called) about the article that Nick Preignitz worked on. Basically, Calibrated Power Solutions, Inc and Cummins-Tuner.com did some drop-in turbo testing on our 2007, 5.9L.

Check out the breakdown below;

https://www.hightail.com/dl?phi_act...atch_download&batch_id=OGhlQmtZQTZ6NE5WeHNUQw

-Paul
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Diesel Power Mag Article:

Which Turbo Is Best For You - Upgrading Your Diesels Turbocharger - Diesel Power Magazine

What would you guys like to see in the next shoot-out?

-Paul
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cp3 shootout
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I'm Curious why the he351 was listed as a 58/58 when it measures 60/60. The he341 is the 58/58 turbo.
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Why no ball bearing turbo?
That was an excellent turbo test. Just wanted to say thank you for the information you got from it. Unfortunately now I have even more info to consider as I am looking for a new turbo...


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The first link won't work...?
How about a test on different exhaust manifolds? From stock to aftermarket using Steed Speed, PDI, etc. You could use a stock truck or one with just a tuner, CAC, and aftermarket exhaust/muffler/cat delete. Am curious to see the results as you use the different levels of a tuner.
How about a test on different exhaust manifolds? From stock to aftermarket using Steed Speed, PDI, etc. You could use a stock truck or one with just a tuner, CAC, and aftermarket exhaust/muffler/cat delete. Am curious to see the results as you use the different levels of a tuner.
You'd have to use the same exact tune for all manifolds. You change one thing on the tune and the results are useless.
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True, but what if you started with a stock manifold and let's say an Edge tuner, and measured egt's on level 1-5. Then swapped in your PDI and ran the Edge from 1-5 again comparing the results. Maybe drive the truck on a closed loop to check mileage, or whatever.
That's feasible b/c the tunes will all be the same. But using something like UDC or EFI and changing timing, RP, duration or pulse width would be kind of a cheat thing making one manifold out perform the other.
Interesting read.
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cp3 shootout
Maybe next. Probably start with a thank you though :)

I'm Curious why the he351 was listed as a 58/58 when it measures 60/60. The he341 is the 58/58 turbo.
All turbochargers were measured. I cannot account for this discrepancy. Our test truck does have 160,--- miles on it - I suppose it's possible something was changed along the way. It has factory exhaust and compressor housing with solenoid mount. FWIW

Why no ball bearing turbo?
First, I doubt any would meet our <$2000 price rule. Secondly, none were recommended by the manufacturers we contacted. With that said, general turbo builder consensus is that wheel size, profile, and housing A/R has a lot more to do with turbo performance than bearing type. The main benefit of a ball bearing cartridge is that is requires less oil feed volume and can be retrofitted to a previously non-turbocharged engine without bolstering the oiling system.

That was an excellent turbo test. Just wanted to say thank you for the information you got from it. Unfortunately now I have even more info to consider as I am looking for a new turbo...
Thank you, it took a ridiculous amount of time, energy, sweat, and money but we learned a lot and got the ball rolling.

True, but what if you started with a stock manifold and let's say an Edge tuner, and measured egt's on level 1-5. Then swapped in your PDI and ran the Edge from 1-5 again comparing the results. Maybe drive the truck on a closed loop to check mileage, or whatever.
If you want to see a test like this, tell the guys who are trying to sell you manifolds that you won't buy one until they show you data and results from an independent review. The consumer has the power. Demand data!

Nick
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Do any of the guys selling manifolds, or turbos for that matter, have independent test results? Not trying to pick a fight, but with the likelihood of an exhaust manifold developing a crack I thought it might be a good test to run. And yes, a big thank you for the turbo comparison. The truck in my sig is new to me, my old one was a '99, so the CR's are a whole different animal to me.
You can do a search, but I think you'll come up empty of anything un-biased or at least mildly scientific test results.

-Nick
The HE351CW uses a 60x86mm compressor wheel, not sure why it was listed as a 58mm wheel. The turbine is a 65x58mm wheel, thou commonly called a 60/60 turbo it really is a 60/58.

As for the ball bearing prices the Garrett Stage 1-3 are all under $2K, and I paid less for my stage 2 than 3/5 of the aftermarket turbo's. It would have been nice to see it in there, as it's an OEM replacement like the others. None of the manufactures you contacted manufacture a BB turbo, so of course they won't recommend one. In addition to lower oil consumption the coolant cooled bearing is a big plus for towing, and the lower resistance of ball bearings allows for a larger turbine housing with similar spool which reduces drive pressure and improves airflow.

Interesting size measurement on the killer B, as it's advertised by BD as a 63/65.

I am also disappointed that the test wasn't redone to include the DP and EGT data for peak power on the 2 missing turbo's. It also would have been nice to see Boost vs DP during the tow test.

To me the tow test is not very valid, mainly because the turbo that lost the spool test won the tow test. If you have ever done much towing in rolling/mountainous terrain you know that doesn't make any sense. Unless your towing on a constant grade, or steady headwind the power is up and down and spool is more important than sustained power. The max sustainable power while towing is important, and great to know, but it's a small percentage of time spent towing. How would that Silver 62 do at ~1900 rpms in OD at 40-60% load? I bet it would have been placed lower in the chart, a large turbine wheel and housing doesn't lend itself to be a towing turbo. There are plenty of reviews on towing with a Silver 62 that concur.

All in all it was a good test, and good to see some data on the same truck with the same tuning in a controlled environment.
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Coffman,

Thanks for chiming in. We were also surpised with the BD measurement. Most of the turbos measured smaller than advertised, manufactures most likely use inducer bore for their specs and not wheel size (my hunch anyway).

With regard to your comments in the tow test, I think you can pull the data you need from the spool-up test and tow test combined if you consider transient operation to be the majority of your driving. Pick the RPM range your truck likes to run while towing your load and look which turbo is doing best there - that's how I envision users deciphering the tow test data.

I did not mean this test to crown the II62 the king of towing. Loaded in OD, like the 1900 RPM you specified it certainly is not. In fact, below 2000 RPM the stock turbo has very little competition. If I were strictly towing moderate loads with my 5.9L I'd probably choose the stock turbo over the competition. The beauty of this test is that our analysis and discussion is now grounded in some real data. You may lament some missing data and criticize some of the methods, but it's a huge improvement over the alternative.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/...ading_your_diesels_turbocharger/photo_11.html


Nick
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Would have liked to of seen how a 63/68/.91 on a t4 second gen would do against the chosen t3 chargers for giggs. I imagine it would have done very well. Good to see some data and the test you did do though.

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Would have liked to of seen how a 63/68/.91 on a t4 second gen would do against the chosen t3 chargers for giggs. I imagine it would have done very well. Good to see some data and the test you did do though.

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I'll second that.


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