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  • allison 1000 6 speed w/ controller

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • 68RFE w/ controler

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • 47rh +OD brownie

    Votes: 1 20.0%
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    Votes: 0 0.0%

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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
46RH is dead taking the long way to an Allison 1000 6 speed

I am in the process of installing an Allison 545 in my 1st gen dodge 91.5(June) , as an emergency measure , 46rh wet the bed .
symptoms / sound say a planetary broke with just more air on stock fuel said the trans shop.
I know that the 545 is non lockup (nether is the 46RH) but don't care:stirpot: its happening. The 545 will get the truck back to Montana from Taxes , and the boss said if you are crazy enough to try there it is . Geter dun you crazy #$%@.

doner info:
97 ish Freightliner MT45(striped chassi cab forward control) 5.9l p-pump has #1 and #2 pistons melted from a blown water pump bearing was the best looking corpse in the bone yard. SAE bellhousing mid / front mount (trans hangs off the mid mount/ bellhousing/ adaptor

receiver:
91.5 IC long time small budget build 350 K+
Hx35W/12 trans made it 2.5 weeks after swap (stock fuel) it was tired
2nd gen IC / mt45 IC set up as dubble pass , up grade in the pipe sending smoke signals saying Im next after the 12 probe EGT/ k temp temp gages, and now the trans .
p-pump after 1-3 more play days at Bonneville World of speed to find the stock fuel standing mile speed limit, for proof of concept testing on my canopy design. with stock gears 2500RPM =87.14 at the trap 1 mile full governor(45HP) by 1/3 mi long road bonneville goals 40mpg useable pickup

I plan to install a Allison 1000 6 speed . When the funding finishes coming in, halfway there now I can get the controller ($1100Transmission Tuner Allison Swap) or a 4-500HP 6 speed but not both as of now . + trans about $3-8k built to handle a maxed out streetable p-pump(conversion parts are already being sourced. only need a dodge style IP)
I may have access to an Allison 1000 5 speed core? function unknown, may be.
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if you think this is a bad idea:

no OD and no lockup are not acceptable reasons TQ limit of 445 TQ.on stock air / fuel maxes out the 46RH's 400TQ as per the dyno at PDD in citer City, UT El.6,000'.
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pros
was already planning a swap. for lock up and 2 OD+ 1 more OD brownie, or single OD lock up w/ 1 OD brownie.
stronger than a wrecking yard uinic on its last leg.
cheep (so far 240 for a starter and my all spare time) ready to go in now vs weeks to build,ship and program then start the install.
can fit 36"tires for rubber gear 75.35 mph. at 100%power transfer (not going to happen).
gets all the hard parts out of the way for the planed 6 speed swap
moore gears between 1st and direct.
a direct box has less parasitic loss than an OD box.
I have 2 US Gear .20 Under drives in montana to compensate for the tall gears, rubber or in the diff( with each box shifted up to direct the parasitic losses are reduced freeing power and reducing load)
possible rules limit( #1 injector must be forward of the ball joints line) motor set back for better weight distribution and take some stress off the front under built D-250 suspension.


cons
stock 31.7" tires 65.01 MPH @2500RPM.
can handle only marginal power increase.
regear with a Gear Tech 1 ton Quick Change based on a winters Extreme Liner Quick Change (3.08:1 version instead of 2.0:1) full tow capable, rear end change is needed sooner than later
floor mods.
posable van dog house instead of a custom center console to go with the bucket sears (pro van dog house has cup holders)
~ $2-300 for driveline mods twice.
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Dammit Dave I can't do that , that means you can't but I did.
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
Gumby Stay Flexible .
 

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Well I have to say this is a bit of a confusing post....very chaotic, not sure what is being asked?:confused013:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
pros and cons of my course of action to an end goal of an Allison 6 speed .
there is 2 camps.
1) don't therad jack
2)don't start a new
there are many threads that only say its a bad idea to consider a 545 because it's not a lockup (moot, as is stock) or overdrive (moot with proper gearing). both of these reasons are invalid with my case its still better than walking home 1800mi when the work in Tx is over end of March.. looking for other problems and advice.
 

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Having had an Allison 1000 behind my first gen Cummins, I will give you this simple advice. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Do not jump into this half ed.
If you have all the parts you need, and you get all your electronics wired correctly, the Allison swap is great. If not, it will be a nightmare from the beginning until you rip it out later in frustration.
Be aware that you will need to fabricate a new transmission crossmember, build custom shifter linkage, and have your driveshaft length changed.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Funky Hunk
did you have to mod the floor to fit the 1000?
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shifter? check. I have both 4 and 5 speed freightliner cable shift units. pulse I can mod the stock gate in the collom to match the allison pattern.

wiring ? trans mission tuner from Montana Allison 6-speed Swap link is advertising a plug and play computer w premade harness for 1st -current gen to 6 speed Allison transmission conversion
For non-electronic engines, no other aftermarket mystery modules, custom valve-bodies, or a bunch of sensors are required for fully automatic 6-speed operation- just the right Allison TCM with the correct program, wire harness, and throttle position sensor. If you have a 12 valve Cummins, you may be able to use the original style Throttle Position Sensor, however the Allison® TPS is much more durable
I'll be calling him soon.

cross member ? check. I will be building a custom Allison 545 rear top mount to work around the d-line park brake, debating whether to keep the mid mount for added chassis stiffness (3 mount system normal motor mounts +a plate bolted between the trans and block mounted to the frame + trans mount on tail shaft housing we used these systems on our dirt track street stock, modified , and late model classes) or delete the mid .

Driveline ? to be ordered . Simple measure twice order once per trans, did this with my old 79 K-20 chevy changing from NP203 to NP205 and many of the race cars.

adaptor/bell is a SAE #2 or#3 I have to measure to confirm. so the 2nd install(1000) has the same SAE bell requirement just duse not use the spacer as the torque converter takes up the extra space with the lock up clutches
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Allison 5/6 speed controller and progress report

I called Jason at Transmission Tuner over in Killispell, Mt today. The $1100(included in estimate is $300 tord tuning $40/ HR) is a tested wire harness and controller for OBD trucks. I was quoted $2300 for a First Gen Kit . $3xx.xx of that is for a GM TPS, you can sorce yourself for cheaper as well he said and states on his his web sight some have been successful in using there stock TPS( stock auto) some have had to notch the holes to achieve 0.55 volts at idle position to work. An Allison with a input shaft speed sensor is required . Theas come with the Quick Tuner EFI Live as a interface. you can opt out of the EFI Live if you already have access to one , or roll the dice that he gets it close enough with his experience on the first try. Retune is as simple as sending a data log file over Email and tell him what you want, can be up to 1-3 days to get an update . This unit is even able to be user adjustable, add laptop.
$2300 sounds reasonable. $1100 for 1 tune ,computer, and harness.

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I verified the SAE2 adaptor / bell 17.652"OD from the 545 fits on the 1000/5 ,and finished removing the the rest of the trans system lines, filter, cooler, bell, mounts .
tomorrow, I'll start pulling the RH46

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Do you think the stock liquid to liquid trans heat exchanger and air to liquid will be adequate to keep the fluid happy with the sloppy torque converter ? In the 33k lbs bus crowd bus, trans overheat due to TC slip especially in the mountains seems to be the biggest complaint next to lack of final gear ratio
my motor will appreciate the extra warmth, used to runs 165-175F summer 140-160F winter 95% blocked with a 5x7" hole in the center of the rad to keep the fan from running all the time. cummins recommends at least 144 sq in (12x12). running 144" and 150-155F is all I can manage in Montana winters. drops to 137F at the bottom of one 12mi 6-7% grade.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Allison 5/6 speed controller and progress report

I called Jason at Transmission Tuner over in kalispell, Mt today. The $1100. (included in estimate is $300 tord tuning $40/ HR if needed) is a tested wire harness and controller for OBD trucks. I was quoted $2300 for a First Gen Kit . $3xx.xx of that is for a GM TPS, you can sorce yourself for cheaper as well he said and states on his his web sight some have been successful in using there stock TPS( stock auto) some have had to notch the holes to achieve 0.55 volts at idle position to work. An Allison with a input shaft speed sensor is required . Theas come with the Quick Tuner EFI Live as a interface. you can opt out of the EFI Live if you already have access to one , or roll the dice that he gets it close enough with his experience on the first try. Retune is as simple as sending a data log file over Email and tell him what you want, can be up to 1-3 days to get an update . This unit is even able to be user adjustable, add laptop.
$2300 sounds reasonable. $1100 for 1 tune ,computer, and harness.

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I verified the SAE2 adaptor / bell 17.652"OD from the 545 fits on the 1000/5.
Finished removing the the rest of the trans system lines, filter, cooler, bell, mounts .
picked up the starter from napa.
Tomorrow, I'll start pulling the RH46

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Do you think the stock liquid to liquid trans heat exchanger and air to liquid will be adequate to keep the fluid happy with the sloppy torque converter ? In the 33k lbs bus crowd bus, trans overheat due to TC slip especially in the mountains seems to be the biggest complaint next to lack of final gear ratio
my motor will appreciate the extra warmth, used to runs 165-175F summer 140-160F winter 95% blocked with a 5x7" hole in the center of the rad to keep the fan from running all the time. cummins recommends at least 144 sq in (12x12). running 144" and 150-155F is all I can manage in Montana winters. drops to 137F at the bottom of one 12mi 6-7% grade.
 

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If it was me I'de go 47rh Route and having the Lock up is like a extra gear .I won't build a Truck with anything But a 47rh Trans no need for a Brownie Box .
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well changed horses mid stream. 20190315_140324_1554879168800.jpg 545 is out the SAE# 2 would require a 3-5" body lift +custom trans tunnle to clear the heater ductwork. 20190323_210346_1554877941989.jpg 3 cotesof Valspar Implement paint Ford grey color _1554879233709.jpg
Took the 3rd generation Allison into Hulon Fox Transmissions Service in Dallas to have it tested on there trans Dyno and found it had water damage from missing sensors and rain causing determination of the clutches. They took my 3rd generation unit in as core. And put together a Built 4th gen 6sp. With GM bell and non driveline brake /rear mount tail housing 3 disk TC alto red G3 clutches( 3extra per pack).

I got the adaptor/ motor plate and flexplate from CA Conversations $1495

Driveshaft w/1410 rear, stock tube 1480 fixed yoke built $420

4th gen controler with tap shift and wire harness CAC $2500
New napa ford 6.0l gear reduction starter $225.

Modified and relocated stock crossmember .
Finishing the wiring now.
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Dose any one know if the stock tcm controls anything other than the old trans?
 
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Discussion Starter #10
The task is complete.
more to follow at a later date
 

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Discussion Starter #11
12,000 mi on the Allison 1000 . Very happy with the swap.
As to gearing
The allison 5/6sp are lockup. The controler I got is an industrial (medium duity non GM )version it changes the lockup point to aprox 25mph hafeway through 2nd, as opposed to the GM not locking till 5th. It un locks @15mph so I barely use my brakes anymore as the transmission downshifting and compression braking does most of my stopping for me. As was pointed out lockup is like an extra gear. Making 5gears /3 shifts+ lockup from stop to 4thlocked /1:1 a 47rh is only 2 shifts to 1:1. Basicly its the same as a 46,47,48 + a granny gear + an extra OD and lockup. In 6th 800rpm @55 2000rpm @ 80mph 2350 @100mph .

Pikes peak (14,110') was on the route home coming down downshifting to First was all that was needed to control the speed for all that the sharpest corners, if I had gone with the Dodge transmission I would have had to ride the brakes all the way down and 2nd gear( 1st in Dodge) was to fast. Brakes were 125°f at the check point hafeway down.

Wrong TCM was shiped. Having not upgraded my Gov spring yet the 3500rpm TCM required WOT to shift, or lifting off the throttle, it was like driving a semi automatic manual Rev, lift, shift, Rav, ect, ect for each gear. This was fixed with a visit to there shop in Florida just south of Pensacola, they swaped the TCM for there 2400rpm uinit. The allison is a learning trans (every shift is analyzed and the trims are adjusted) this thing shifts smoth even with a locked TQ. I have towed with it and it adapts prity quick to the load changes...

Using the stock coolers ( liquid to air + liquid to liquid) is keeping trans temps in check. The stock 1/2" trans lines are adequate. I was able to reconfigure the hard lines to pass underneath the bellhousing and only had to add 1 12 " section and 1 2" section of hydraulic line using JIC connectors( steel version of AN fittings used in hydraulics) ,the liquid the liquid trans cooler is already outfitted with JIC.

The biggest point of any of these kind of write-ups. Would I do it again? Yes absolutely.
 

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I'm going to mate an Allison 5 speed behind a ve pumped 24v. Looking for about 300hp or less. Is yours doing ok without defueling during the shifts?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
humphrey169
So I'm actually doing this swap now. What tps are you using
The TCM from CA CONVERSIONS can use the stock 1st gen TPS, but they have had better success using the GM TPS which they offer a kit to remote mount the GM TPS.
I'm going to mate an Allison 5 speed behind a ve pumped 24v. Looking for about 300hp or less. Is yours doing ok without defueling during the shifts?
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It handles the TC locked shifts very well. The CAC TCM locks the TC @2.5 gear(~ 20mph) . This is how Fraightliner and other medium duity apps do it. 300hp on ve is ~ 900ftlb the base Allison 1000 is rated for 550-750ftlb( depending on which generation) the 4th gen trans I got from Hulon Fox transmission out of Dallas Texas is rated to 2000 ftlb
The the shift firmness is completely controlled by the TCM and is a fully learning TCM it has two solenoids one for apply and one for release which ECM adjust the rates of both solenoids get quality shifts regardless of how the truck is loaded this time.
Yes I had the transmission over built for stock power on a first gen however I don't plan on keeping it there. My OBD2 scan tool is registering 765Nm (564ftlb) of torque .

Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality
 
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My thoughts exactly.
Well I have to say this is a bit of a confusing post....very chaotic, not sure what is being asked?:confused013:
Bingo.
If it was me I'de go 47rh Route and having the Lock up is like a extra gear .I won't build a Truck with anything But a 47rh Trans no need for a Brownie Box .
You'd be far better off using manual OD/LU switches, or a Compushift Mini.
Regardless, a stock non LU A518 (46RH) can handle 750ft-lbs rather well.

The TCM from CA CONVERSIONS can use the stock 1st gen TPS, but they have had better success using the GM TPS which they offer a kit to remote mount the GM TPS.
.
It handles the TC locked shifts very well. The CAC TCM locks the TC @2.5 gear(~ 20mph) . This is how Fraightliner and other medium duity apps do it. 300hp on ve is ~ 900ftlb the base Allison 1000 is rated for 550-750ftlb( depending on which generation) the 4th gen trans I got from Hulon Fox transmission out of Dallas Texas is rated to 2000 ftlb
The the shift firmness is completely controlled by the TCM and is a fully learning TCM it has two solenoids one for apply and one for release which ECM adjust the rates of both solenoids get quality shifts regardless of how the truck is loaded this time.
Yes I had the transmission over built for stock power on a first gen however I don't plan on keeping it there. My OBD2 scan tool is registering 765Nm (564ftlb) of torque .

Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My thoughts exactly.
Well I have to say this is a bit of a confusing post....very chaotic, not sure what is being asked?
Bingo.
If it was me I'de go 47rh Route and having the Lock up is like a extra gear .I won't build a Truck with anything But a 47rh Trans no need for a Brownie Box .
You'd be far better off using manual OD/LU switches, or a Compushift Mini.
Regardless, a stock non LU A518 (46RH) can handle 750ft-lbs rather well.

My my apologies for my lack of clarity.
I wanted to go with a manual, the 5 and 6 speeds are .75 OD 1976 @70 vs .69OD 1818rpm @70 of the dead 518 . Which is going backwards in trying to set my gearing up for 1600 rpm cruising speed of 70mph . Allison is .61OD [email protected]
To get the same results from any of the 4sp dodge autos tranis it would require a positive raito Gear venders or equivalent. As well as a gear swap to custom 3.93. Just a diffrent way of skinning the same cat.
Witch is better for the motor ?
Hours on end @Peek torq or peek hp.
I chose TQ.
Please explain your reasons for choosing Peak HP and above(in the defueling part of the dyno graph).

750tq =250hp on a ve45, that was not enough growing room. Is this a wheel or crank tq?
Other than swaping the TCM and clearancing the trans tunnel, it wasnt much different than doing a 47 swap and adding the brownie would have made the 47 a bigger job to do.

"LO TC is like another gear. "
Yes it is , so my 6sp acts like a 7sp. On the Allison the extra gear is in a more convenient place for towing.
By the way thank you for giving me your input on what you would do
 
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