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@mxsledder I agree 100%, if Allison didn't think it was a good transmission, they wouldn't have put their name on it. They definitely tested/approved it. I really wish GM would show what gear it is in without having to put it in manual mode.

Ram was the first one out with an 8 speed/greater than a 6 speed in the half tons. They are way behind the times with the diesel. I honestly thought there would be a ZF8 behind the cummins in the 2019 model year. ZF had been testing one for years in the 4th gen trucks. IIRC they shaved around 2 seconds off the 0-60 time compared to the Aisin. The 8 speed has done wonders for the 6.4 hemi.
I'm wondering what the reasoning was for not putting the ZF8 in the CTD? Maybe it won't hold up to the torque in its current configuration?
The one ZF was testing was rated north of 1000 ft lbs as stated by ZF. I'm wondering if they have a contract with Aisin for "X" amount of years. They are probably also trying to pull in as much money as they can from the 68rfe as it is an in house design that they've had they're factory tooled for since '07.5. There have been updates to it over the years but nothing huge as far as redoing everything in the factory. The SO vs HO thing is a joke but it's a way for FCA to make more money as they make more off of the 68rfe.

Once/if the ZF8 is released, there will be absolutely no point to having a SO and HO option and they should really only offer the ZF8, even in the chassis cabs provided there is a PTO option on the transmission (which I'm pretty sure there will be).

ZF knows how to build a great transmission. The ZF8 in the half tons is by far the best transmission in any pickup truck in the class when it comes to reliability, longevity, shifting algorithm and shift quality. I have no doubt in my mind that whatever ZF8 is built for the Cummins, will be best in class as well.
 

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As far as front end "styling" goes, I prefer the GMC to current Ram or Ford.

The Chevy pic posted earlier - hideous, but I understand that may be a doctored pic?
 

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Everyone is all in a tizzy about not having an 8 or 10 speed in these trucks yet. I drove a 10spd Denali, shifts way too much and I would have to make an educated guess and say the Ford is no different.

I bought another 68rfe truck after absolutely destroying the 68rfe in my 2017. Drove the aisin and was not a fan. Time will tell if this 2020 68rfe is better or worse than my 2017, I know I won't be doing nowhere near the stupid I did with a stock trans..at least for now.
I have it on pretty good authority that whenever we get the next gen trucks there will be a different transmission as someone mentioned.
 

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As far as front end "styling" goes, I prefer the GMC to current Ram or Ford.

The Chevy pic posted earlier - hideous, but I understand that may be a doctored pic?
We both agree with that my friend! But I’m learning styling is so subjective it’s hardly worth debating.
Yes that Chevy pic was completely not real. The Chevrolet is not on the very bottom but more like midway up or closer to the top. Many people feel like the new Chevy just doesn’t do it looks wise but most people feel the GMC looks quite good. I personally feel that the High Country looks decent but the other trims like the LTZ are an acquired taste for sure.
 

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From what I know about ZF is that they were in plenty of BMW's from the early 2000's and had plenty of issues. However during that time BMW worded them as Life Time transmissions and many were completely sealed with no way to check the oil level for the end user/owner and BMW said they never needed service, (complete BS) and only trained BMW techs actually knew how to properly top them off. Perhaps they are much h better today.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I am very happy with the way the Aisin performs. Why everyone thinks a ZF is the solution is pure speculation. I for one will not be a guinea pig. If we see a ZF I will give it at least one year. This is my third Aisin. It has some quirks but nothing that I personally see as an issue. Under stock power it has great track record. With this new HO I see zero need for more power. To each there own I suppose. I have had a couple 6 spd allisions and thought they had worse manners at times than any auto I’ve had....all personal preference
 

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8 speeds IMO is the ideal for these trucks unless they start coming out with an extremely tall overdrive and maybe a 2 speed reverse. ZF did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that 8 speeds is the ideal for fuel economy vs cost and reliability for a transmission behind a pickup. I 100% agree
I agree completely as well, with the caveat that any real truck has 3 pedals (well, 4 if you count the parking brake). When are they going to offer an 8 speed manual?
 

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I have both, my 18 Ram Dually has a turbo deleted ect, 18 duramax denali dually is stock. Duramax all day long. Duramax will out tow, out drive, out run and hold the resale value far better than the dodge. I really don’t know if there’s anyway to really compare the two. First truck I’ve bought that wasn’t a Cummins. And i doubt I’ll go back. The L5P is amazing, the Allison trans is top notch towing. The comfort lvl of a denali or high country is imo something Ram has never been able to obtain. Just my .02
 

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There’s no comparison on the interior quality between the 2, the RAM wins hands down.

If I knew then what I know now I would not have bought a 2500 series truck.

In my mind those 2 alone make it Ram 2, GM 0.


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I have both, my 18 Ram Dually has a turbo deleted ect, 18 duramax denali dually is stock. Duramax all day long. Duramax will out tow, out drive, out run and hold the resale value far better than the dodge. I really don’t know if there’s anyway to really compare the two. First truck I’ve bought that wasn’t a Cummins. And i doubt I’ll go back. The L5P is amazing, the Allison trans is top notch towing. The comfort lvl of a denali or high country is imo something Ram has never been able to obtain. Just my .02


Hmmmm guess that’s why the Duramax trucks come in dead last in the Ike Gauntlet towing tests even though the Ram is “underpowered”?


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I have both, my 18 Ram Dually has a turbo deleted ect, 18 duramax denali dually is stock. Duramax all day long. Duramax will out tow, out drive, out run and hold the resale value far better than the dodge. I really don’t know if there’s anyway to really compare the two. First truck I’ve bought that wasn’t a Cummins. And i doubt I’ll go back. The L5P is amazing, the Allison trans is top notch towing. The comfort lvl of a denali or high country is imo something Ram has never been able to obtain. Just my .02


Hmmmm guess that’s why the Duramax trucks come in dead last in the Ike Gauntlet towing tests even though the Ram is “underpowered”?


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The Ram certainly is not underpowered especially the HO version but could use a few more HP. The Duramax has actually won most if not all of the Ike gauntlet challenges up until this year. It basically tied the 1000 torque Cummins pulling around 20,000 pounds around 4 months ago with 90 less torque than the Cummins. It did just barely get smoked by 1050 torque Ford just barely though. The Ram is going up against the Ford soon. Can’t wait to see how it goes down.
 

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IMO both are great daily drivers. Both can also tow exceedingly well.. I had a 2019 Denali HD and 2019 3500 Laramie. I'd take either truck.. What it came down to for me living somewhere with brine, mag chloride, and muck 9 months out of the year was corrosion resistance. That crap wax that they put on the GM is a joke. Half of it was already scuffed off, exposed bare metal, and was already rusting...
The frame coating alone is enough to make me avoid the GM's. I can't stand the Chevy design but I don't hate the GMC, the tow mirrors are nasty!

That is true but Allison was involved with the design of this transmission and just because GM is manufacturing it does not make it any less of a transmission. Time will tell on the durability but as far as the feel goes there is no comparison at all between it and the Aisin as I have both and drive both of them back to back all the time. I like my new Ram a lot but the transmission is the single biggest downfall and Ram knows this and is working on a fix which is almost certainly going to be a ZF 8 speed.
Just wondering, (with some jealously) why do you own both!?
 

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From what I know about ZF is that they were in plenty of BMW's from the early 2000's and had plenty of issues. However during that time BMW worded them as Life Time transmissions and many were completely sealed with no way to check the oil level for the end user/owner and BMW said they never needed service, (complete BS) and only trained BMW techs actually knew how to properly top them off. Perhaps they are much h better today.
Overall, ZF has a very good reputation. However, I have quite a bit of experience with them. ZF makes transmissions for a multitude of vehicle manufacturers, including Hyundai, Rolls Royce, BMW, Audi, Land Rover, Jeep, RAM, Chrysler, and others. The long-standing Ford 6R80 transmission used in the F-150 since 2009 to current is a licensed version of a ZFHP26.

In my experience, ZF transmissions with an odd number of gears have been very problematic and not long lived. ZF units with an even numbers of gears have generally been excellent. The ZF4HP22 was a good transmission. We had several of these in Land Rovers and Range Rovers. Even with high miles, they lasted. The 5-speed ZF auto used in the Audi A8 quattro and 2003-2005 Range Rover was a piece of junk. It was a case of when, not if, it failed. We had a failure on our own Audi A8. Now, the 6-speed ZF auto was a gem. So is the 8 speed, at least the lighter duty version used in so many vehicles from the RAM 1500 to the Rolls Royce Phantom. But the 9 speed ZF auto used in transverse engines like the Jeep Renegade, Range Rover Evoque, and Acura RDX...is total junk with a useless 9th gear. I think its fair to say ZF makes high quality transmissions but they are far from perfect, and there is no guarantee the heavy duty 8 speed is some great transmission. RAM may have assessed it and decided the Aisin was simply a better choice.


I have both, my 18 Ram Dually has a turbo deleted ect, 18 duramax denali dually is stock. Duramax all day long. Duramax will out tow, out drive, out run and hold the resale value far better than the dodge. I really don’t know if there’s anyway to really compare the two. First truck I’ve bought that wasn’t a Cummins. And i doubt I’ll go back. The L5P is amazing, the Allison trans is top notch towing. The comfort lvl of a denali or high country is imo something Ram has never been able to obtain. Just my .02
While I think the Duramax is a fine engine, I also think your hyperbole is over the top. The current GM trucks are considered to have the worst interior of all three major truck brands. Not to mention a 2018 generation GM HD is significantly a step back from the current. A GM doesn't out tow, out run, and out drive anything. It simply performs competitively.
 

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IMO both are great daily drivers. Both can also tow exceedingly well.. I had a 2019 Denali HD and 2019 3500 Laramie. I'd take either truck.. What it came down to for me living somewhere with brine, mag chloride, and muck 9 months out of the year was corrosion resistance. That crap wax that they put on the GM is a joke. Half of it was already scuffed off, exposed bare metal, and was already rusting...
The frame coating alone is enough to make me avoid the GM's. I can't stand the Chevy design but I don't hate the GMC, the tow mirrors are nasty!

That is true but Allison was involved with the design of this transmission and just because GM is manufacturing it does not make it any less of a transmission. Time will tell on the durability but as far as the feel goes there is no comparison at all between it and the Aisin as I have both and drive both of them back to back all the time. I like my new Ram a lot but the transmission is the single biggest downfall and Ram knows this and is working on a fix which is almost certainly going to be a ZF 8 speed.
Just wondering, (with some jealously) why do you own both!?
I own a demolition business and always have a truck I use within the business and another one that is strictly personal.
 

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The Ram certainly is not underpowered especially the HO version but could use a few more HP. The Duramax has actually won most if not all of the Ike gauntlet challenges up until this year. It basically tied the 1000 torque Cummins pulling around 20,000 pounds around 4 months ago with 90 less torque than the Cummins. It did just barely get smoked by 1050 torque Ford just barely though. The Ram is going up against the Ford soon. Can’t wait to see how it goes down.
They found a Ford that could make it up the hill?
 

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We live in the age of heavy DOT enforcement. If you will never haul heavier than a 2500 dont buy bigger or they may ask you to get some expensive things.. anything after 26000 is 100% CDL
No 100% true. It depends on what you are doing. If the truck and trailer is for personal use. (Rv's 5th wheel, horse trailer etc) then you do not need a CDL for being over 26K. Depending on what state you live in you may need an upgraded license. Texas will want you to have a Class-A or B depending on weight, but not a CDL. Other states you are fine with a standard Class-C (regular car/truck) My state does not require an upgraded license to pull a trailer (RV) over 26k. If I were to go to Texas I would be fine having a class-c as long as I meet the requirements of my home state. Not that I am too worried about it because I've had a Class-A CDL for over 15 years, but my wife does not and she can legally drive my truck and trailer. Now if its for business (for profit) and you have DOT numbers then a CDL will be required. DOT for the most part will not bother you for having a 3500 DRW towing a 43ft tri axel toy hauler down the road. The only state that I know of that will require you to go into a weigh station is SD. All other states do not want you in the scales unless your truck has DOT numbers on it.
 

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No 100% true. It depends on what you are doing. If the truck and trailer is for personal use. (Rv's 5th wheel, horse trailer etc) then you do not need a CDL for being over 26K. Depending on what state you live in you may need an upgraded license. Texas will want you to have a Class-A or B depending on weight, but not a CDL. Other states you are fine with a standard Class-C (regular car/truck) My state does not require an upgraded license to pull a trailer (RV) over 26k. If I were to go to Texas I would be fine having a class-c as long as I meet the requirements of my home state. Not that I am too worried about it because I've had a Class-A CDL for over 15 years, but my wife does not and she can legally drive my truck and trailer. Now if its for business (for profit) and you have DOT numbers then a CDL will be required. DOT for the most part will not bother you for having a 3500 DRW towing a 43ft tri axel toy hauler down the road. The only state that I know of that will require you to go into a weigh station is SD. All other states do not want you in the scales unless your truck has DOT numbers on it.
FWIW, here in CO, we're good up to 26,001. It's shown on the back of the DL by the endorsements.

I've seen CA RV'ers report they have to be licensed AND hit the scales in CA over some other ridiculously low number.
 

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FWIW, here in CO, we're good up to 26,001. It's shown on the back of the DL by the endorsements.

I've seen CA RV'ers report they have to be licensed AND hit the scales in CA over some other ridiculously low number.
California has one of the most restrictive laws on trailer weights. Any trailer over 10K lbs., you need to have a non-commercial class "A" license. Although you can get a license for up to 15K lb 5th wheel, by just doing a written.

As far as scales, they are no different then anywhere else, they don't want R.V.'s. Every so often, the highway patrol will go after R.V.'s, just be near Pismo Beach on a holiday, and you would agree with them.
 

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California has one of the most restrictive laws on trailer weights. Any trailer over 10K lbs., you need to have a non-commercial class "A" license. Although you can get a license for up to 15K lb 5th wheel, by just doing a written.

As far as scales, they are no different then anywhere else, they don't want R.V.'s. Every so often, the highway patrol will go after R.V.'s, just be near Pismo Beach on a holiday, and you would agree with them.
My understanding is that there are exactly zero states that want non-commercial vehicles rolling through the scales but there are those that insist they know their state's laws and they have to stop. Never in a million years would I run my RV through a scale unless it was not operating, left on, and I had the time and desire to catch some free weights.

I've seen plenty of stupid rolling down the road that justified a stop...
 
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