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IMO both are great daily drivers. Both can also tow exceedingly well.. I had a 2019 Denali HD and 2019 3500 Laramie. I'd take either truck.. What it came down to for me living somewhere with brine, mag chloride, and muck 9 months out of the year was corrosion resistance. That crap wax that they put on the GM is a joke. Half of it was already scuffed off, exposed bare metal, and was already rusting...
2020 GM trucks have e-coated frames just like Ram and Ford.
 

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2020 GM trucks have e-coated frames just like Ram and Ford.
You better go down to your local dealer... They claim that they painted underneath the wax but you can literally scrape it off with your fingernail and there is not any paint underneath. And yes i'm talking about a 2020. I was hoping they painted like Ram and Ford. Even the ford e-coat is paper thin, there are brand new trucks on dealer lots with a fair amount of surface rust. GM did update the corrosion warranty to 12 years but it's still wax dipped, go check..

BTW, congrats @Lhvet
 

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You better go down to your local dealer... They claim that they painted underneath the wax but you can literally scrape it off with your fingernail and there is not any paint underneath. And yes i'm talking about a 2020. I was hoping they painted like Ram and Ford. Even the ford e-coat is paper thin, there are brand new trucks on dealer lots with a fair amount of surface rust. GM did update the corrosion warranty to 12 years but it's still wax dipped, go check..

BTW, congrats @Lhvet

@Aaron37, google is your friend :) here are some folks even talking about on dieselplace along with pictures of a guy that did the same thing i did..

https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/864-duramax-seventh-generation-2020-l5p/977330-2020-chevy-1k-mile-mpg-3.html#post9838840
 

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I actually have both of them and don’t have a definitive favorite as of yet. You can feel the Duramax has more HP and is a bit more fun to drive around unloaded. You can also feel the Cummins has more torque. As far as transmission goes I absolutely love the 10 speed Allison, it’s silky smooth always in the right gear and is much more responsive than the Aisin. At first I Hated my Aisin and nearly traded it in on the new Ford but it has came around quite a bit after 6,000 miles. My single biggest gripe is the extreme defueling through the first three gears, under hard acceleration the sudden loss in forward drive can actually throw you forward a bit during the defueling.

I personally like the looks on my At4 a bit better but that’s entirely subjective, I’m anxiously awaiting some big lifts to come out for it. It is a bit disappointing Ram used the same old cab and body except for the front end redesign. The GMC has an entirely new body and cab which is a plus.
As far as interior goes the GMC is not bad but Ram clearly has the upper hand here without a doubt. I am in love with my limited interior and it’s certainly the nicest truck interior there has ever been. Truly both trucks are amazing and each one has an edge in certain areas, you really can’t go wrong at all.
 

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Truly both trucks are amazing and each one has an edge in certain areas, you really can’t go wrong at all.
So basically youre saying it came down to the hood scoop. :pick:

IMO both are great daily drivers. Both can also tow exceedingly well.. I had a 2019 Denali HD and 2019 3500 Laramie. I'd take either truck.. What it came down to for me living somewhere with brine, mag chloride, and muck 9 months out of the year was corrosion resistance. That crap wax that they put on the GM is a joke. Half of it was already scuffed off, exposed bare metal, and was already rusting...
Typically every vehicle has a weak point to the rust. We experience the same here in West Virginia. The 1999-2007 Silverados had unnacepptably weak-to-corrosion brake lines. Which is a serious weak point, but a cheap fix. The 2002-2009 Rams bed rust is absolutely a massive issue and expensive to fix. I think its up to the owner to take serious anti corrosion measures, constantly.
 

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I left Ram in my 2006 with the weak transmission towing in the hills in Oregon. I've since been a Duramax fan. In a Classic 3500 DRW LBZ 2007. I stopped buying trucks after this one. Drives like a car and tows a 5000lb camper and a small boat wonderfully. I see no reason to monkey with the factory settings anymore...


I honestly find a transmission way more important than silly power. All of these trucks have plenty of power for my needs....But years of longevity are far more important.

So help me, if I switch to Ram (2020 DRW 3500) and the Aisan sucks, I will haunt you guys forever. :grin2:
 

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I left Ram in my 2006 with the weak transmission towing in the hills in Oregon. I've since been a Duramax fan. In a Classic 3500 DRW LBZ 2007. I stopped buying trucks after this one. Drives like a car and tows a 5000lb camper and a small boat wonderfully. I see no reason to monkey with the factory settings anymore...


I honestly find a transmission way more important than silly power. All of these trucks have plenty of power for my needs....But years of longevity are far more important.

So help me, if I switch to Ram (2020 DRW 3500) and the Aisan sucks, I will haunt you guys forever. <img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/CumminsForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
If the transmission is your main focus go with the 10 speed Allison all day long. I like my Ram overall quite a bit but my Aisin truly is not even comparable to the Allison 10 speed.
 

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Good choice with the RAM. Can you imagine having to look at this front end every day?
That is not even a correct picture, the Chevrolet is not on the very bottom. I personally don’t like the Chevy much at all but lots of people including me like the GMC a lot. To each their own though.
 

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When I was shopping a few months back I was all in for the "Allison 10 speed trans" but I learned the GM is actually making the trans them selves with licensing the Allison name.
https://ir.allisontransmission.com/news-releases/news-release-details/chevrolet-offer-10-speed-fully-automatic-allison-branded
That is true but Allison was involved with the design of this transmission and just because GM is manufacturing it does not make it any less of a transmission. Time will tell on the durability but as far as the feel goes there is no comparison at all between it and the Aisin as I have both and drive both of them back to back all the time. I like my new Ram a lot but the transmission is the single biggest downfall and Ram knows this and is working on a fix which is almost certainly going to be a ZF 8 speed.
 

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That is not even a correct picture, the Chevrolet is not on the very bottom. I personally don’t like the Chevy much at all but lots of people including me like the GMC a lot. To each their own though.
It's better than the Chevy but still worse than Ram and Ford by a large margin
 

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That is not even a correct picture, the Chevrolet is not on the very bottom. I personally don’t like the Chevy much at all but lots of people including me like the GMC a lot. To each their own though.
I prefer the GMC styling a lot. I just grabbed a pic off google, but upon further looking it does appear the one I posted has been altered. Either way, its an ugly nose.
 

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That is not even a correct picture, the Chevrolet is not on the very bottom. I personally don’t like the Chevy much at all but lots of people including me like the GMC a lot. To each their own though.
It's better than the Chevy but still worse than Ram and Ford by a large margin
Thanks for your two cents. I just sold a 2017 F350 platinum that I loved and as you know also have a 19 Ram. My two cents is the GMC at4 is the best looking of them all. I can’t wait for the CST 8” lift to be released. Here’s one with a 6” lift. But anyways your entitled to your opinion. I’m personally bored to tears with the Ram styling and wish they would have redone the whole truck instead of just stuck a band aid on the front end and called it a day. But styling is entirely subjective so no point in debating it at all.
 

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That is true but Allison was involved with the design of this transmission and just because GM is manufacturing it does not make it any less of a transmission. Time will tell on the durability but as far as the feel goes there is no comparison at all between it and the Aisin as I have both and drive both of them back to back all the time. I like my new Ram a lot but the transmission is the single biggest downfall and Ram knows this and is working on a fix which is almost certainly going to be a ZF 8 speed.
Allison as a company was not involved at all in the design process as far as I'm aware. There was however a former Allison engineer that was a part of the engineering team that designed the transmission. Once it was finished they sent some transmissions to Allison for testing/approval to get the "Allison" badge. It was fully designed/developed and produced by GM. GM has had quite a few issues/recalls on some of their transmissions as of late, not saying the 10 speed 10L1000 is going to be one of them.

The 10L1000 and 10r140 have some lousy gear ratios though. They have two wasted gears. Either eliminate 2nd or 3rd gear (or ideally split them in the middle) and get rid of 9th gear. They wasted the opportunity to put out an incredible spread of gears. 9th is way to close to 10th. If they wanted to do a triple overdrive (which isn't needed as 1.00:1, 0.82:1, 0.63:1 spread or around there works extremely well) they should've done a 0.86:1, 0.72:1, 0.59:1 or around there. They would've been better off doing a double overdrive with a 5.xx:1 1st gear and evening out the spread until direct drive in 7th. But even then there will be a couple wasted gears that it will either skip shift(like it does currently unless in tow haul or WOT) or it will just take longer to get up to speed due to unnecessary shifts. I can't comment on the 10L1000 (maybe you can) but the 10r140 goes from 1st to 3rd to 5th under most driving conditions and the 1st to 3rd shift isn't always that nice. A Zf8 won't need to skip shift as the ratios are just spaced out perfectly to provide a nice shift and gear spread without being so close that it would be a waste of a shift. The ZF8's in the 1500's also shift a lot quicker than the 10 speeds in the GM 1500's and F-150's.

Take a look at the ZF8-75HP for an almost perfect transmission for gear ratios. The only thing it could improve on IMO is have a 4ish to 1 reverse ratio which they could do for the one behind the Cummins. Use a 3.42 axle ratio with an optional 3.73 or 3.92 at most for a heavy tow package (4.10's and lower are a complete waste behind a cummins with an 8 speed). The 5.00:1 1st gear is incredible along with a perfect spread to direct drive in 6th and a perfectly spaced double overdrive with a 0.64/0.63:1 8th gear. I only wish for 2 extra gears in my 68rfe, a lower 1st gear and an extra gear between 3rd and 4th.

Everyone seems so into the "more gears is better" without even looking into the specs on the transmission and looking at the fact that the more gears they put into it in the same space, the less robust the unit becomes. 8 speeds IMO is the ideal for these trucks unless they start coming out with an extremely tall overdrive and maybe a 2 speed reverse. ZF did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that 8 speeds is the ideal for fuel economy vs cost and reliability for a transmission behind a pickup. I 100% agree with them.

Having said this, I personally would rather the 10L1000 over an Aisin. I hate the way the Aisin's shift. They are so darn slow and they defuel way to much. I much prefer the 68rfe.
 

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That is true but Allison was involved with the design of this transmission and just because GM is manufacturing it does not make it any less of a transmission. Time will tell on the durability but as far as the feel goes there is no comparison at all between it and the Aisin as I have both and drive both of them back to back all the time. I like my new Ram a lot but the transmission is the single biggest downfall and Ram knows this and is working on a fix which is almost certainly going to be a ZF 8 speed.
Allison as a company was not involved at all in the design process as far as I'm aware. There was however a former Allison engineer that was a part of the engineering team that designed the transmission. Once it was finished they sent some transmissions to Allison for testing/approval to get the "Allison" badge. It was fully designed/developed and produced by GM. GM has had quite a few issues/recalls on some of their transmissions as of late, not saying the 10 speed 10L1000 is going to be one of them.

The 10L1000 and 10r140 have some lousy gear ratios though. They have two wasted gears. Either eliminate 2nd or 3rd gear (or ideally split them in the middle) and get rid of 9th gear. They wasted the opportunity to put out an incredible spread of gears. 9th is way to close to 10th. If they wanted to do a triple overdrive (which isn't needed as 1.00:1, 0.82:1, 0.63:1 spread or around there works extremely well) they should've done a 0.86:1, 0.72:1, 0.59:1 or around there. They would've been better off doing a double overdrive with a 5.xx:1 1st gear and evening out the spread until direct drive in 7th. But even then there will be a couple wasted gears that it will either skip shift(like it does currently unless in tow haul or WOT) or it will just take longer to get up to speed due to unnecessary shifts. I can't comment on the 10L1000 (maybe you can) but the 10r140 goes from 1st to 3rd to 5th under most driving conditions and the 1st to 3rd shift isn't always that nice. A Zf8 won't need to skip shift as the ratios are just spaced out perfectly to provide a nice shift and gear spread without being so close that it would be a waste of a shift. The ZF8's in the 1500's also shift a lot quicker than the 10 speeds in the GM 1500's and F-150's.

Take a look at the ZF8-75HP for an almost perfect transmission for gear ratios. The only thing it could improve on IMO is have a 4ish to 1 reverse ratio which they could do for the one behind the Cummins. Use a 3.42 axle ratio with an optional 3.73 or 3.92 at most for a heavy tow package (4.10's and lower are a complete waste behind a cummins with an 8 speed). The 5.00:1 1st gear is incredible along with a perfect spread to direct drive in 6th and a perfectly spaced double overdrive with a 0.64/0.63:1 8th gear. I only wish for 2 extra gears in my 68rfe, a lower 1st gear and an extra gear between 3rd and 4th.

Everyone seems so into the "more gears is better" without even looking into the specs on the transmission and looking at the fact that the more gears they put into it in the same space, the less robust the unit becomes. 8 speeds IMO is the ideal for these trucks unless they start coming out with an extremely tall overdrive and maybe a 2 speed reverse. ZF did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that 8 speeds is the ideal for fuel economy vs cost and reliability for a transmission behind a pickup. I 100% agree with them.

Having said this, I personally would rather the 10L1000 over an Aisin. I hate the way the Aisin's shift. They are so darn slow and they defuel way to much. I much prefer the 68rfe.
I am not quite sure if the Allison skips gears because you can’t see what gear it is in. Thanks for the insight as you are obviously extremely knowledgeable with transmissions. Im not positive how it went down but I believe GM designed the trans for the most part and Allison gave GM it’s Blessing throughout the process but they were involved to some degree. Also there’s no way Allison would put its name on it and risk its outstanding reputation if they did not feel very good about the transmission. I’m sure you are right about the gear ratios but all I know is this trans feels absolutely amazing and is by far the best feeling trans I’ve ever driven or owned.
I do think the ZF 8 speed will be a great trans as well and the 8 speed will have plenty of gears.
 

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@mxsledder I agree 100%, if Allison didn't think it was a good transmission, they wouldn't have put their name on it. They definitely tested/approved it. I really wish GM would show what gear it is in without having to put it in manual mode.

Ram was the first one out with an 8 speed/greater than a 6 speed in the half tons. They are way behind the times with the diesel. I honestly thought there would be a ZF8 behind the cummins in the 2019 model year. ZF had been testing one for years in the 4th gen trucks. IIRC they shaved around 2 seconds off the 0-60 time compared to the Aisin. The 8 speed has done wonders for the 6.4 hemi.
 

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@mxsledder I agree 100%, if Allison didn't think it was a good transmission, they wouldn't have put their name on it. They definitely tested/approved it. I really wish GM would show what gear it is in without having to put it in manual mode.

Ram was the first one out with an 8 speed/greater than a 6 speed in the half tons. They are way behind the times with the diesel. I honestly thought there would be a ZF8 behind the cummins in the 2019 model year. ZF had been testing one for years in the 4th gen trucks. IIRC they shaved around 2 seconds off the 0-60 time compared to the Aisin. The 8 speed has done wonders for the 6.4 hemi.
I'm wondering what the reasoning was for not putting the ZF8 in the CTD? Maybe it won't hold up to the torque in its current configuration?
 
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