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Discussion Starter #1
Hello All,

Man this truck is giving me a fit!

Truck Model, Year and Mileage): Its a 2003 5.9 24v Automatic 3500 crew cab w/ 304,000 miles

Truck Symptoms): When the truck is properly heat soaked (Like after a long drive) it will crank and crank and crank, likely until the starter burns out.

Truck History):

A): Has had several stock transmission jobs, and one replacement (Thanks Daimler /s) and now has a built transmission.

B): Ran "160hp" injectors, now runs brand new 100hp units that were just replaced (less than 500 miles)

C): Tuned (not by me) with one of those boxed tunes

D): Has a brand new lift pump (less than 80 miles)

E): Truck had a serious loss of power, and was immediately parked. Cylinder Head was pulled, found to have a valve about to drop. All injectors were replaced with the 100hp units at this time while the Head was being redone. Issue began after head installation during first week of driving it.

Troubleshooting Attempts to fix the problem):

A): Searched for leaks all the way back to the fuel tank, none found

B): Hard lines and Banjo fittings were all checked for leaks, none found

C): Lift Pump was weak, and was replaced (as seen in truck history). Tank was cleaned while removed

D): PRV was blocked off, no fix

E): CP3 was sprayed down with water (I know, a really stupid choice) to cool it down, it did start after this was done

F): Injector Supply Tubes were torqued down to spec (again)

G): FCA was then checked to rule it out:

1): Truck would not start

2): FCA was unplugged, truck started

3): Plugged FCA back in, and truck was taken on short drive to heat soak once again

4): Once back at the house, and shut off, truck would not restart (as expected with FCA plugged in)

5): FCA was unplugged, truck would NOT start

6): FCA was plugged back in, truck would NOT start




Sorry for that long winded history,

Now that all that is done, where should I go from here? Should I go get a miller fitting and start testing injector return (even though I just bought new ones :banghead:)
 

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Is all this since the "100hp" units or a long standing issue.

What in injectors , new as in new , re mans , ect ect


There is a way to test Rail Pressure while cranking ,, very necessary test in your situation. Unless it "sees" enough PR it doesnt fire injectors at all .
example : rail pressure can be compromised by hot / leaky injector ect ect
 

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Discussion Starter #3
How might I test the rail pressure?

Also, in my haste I forgot a huge portion of the truck history, I've edited the original post.

EDIT: Alright, Gotta find a gauge that hooks up to a passthrough for the pressure sensor on the common rail, once I get that Ill figure out what my fuel pressure is on the hard start
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think you answered your own question, CP-3 time.
You're likely right. I just want to do a bit more diagnostics before I pull the trigger on a new one.

(Unless of course if cooling the CP-3 down and it cranking is a definitive sign that the pump is bad)

Thankfully its not my daily so its no rush.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Need help with PIDs for Scan Tool

Okay, got a scan tool. Its measuring the basic PIDs. However the advanced PIDs are no where to be found (can't find a website that has a list) has anyone logged rail pressure on the torque app in this forum?
 

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Probably not available on an 03, they lacked a lot of the advanced info of the later trucks. Could be a version issue with the App also, check and make sure it is up to date.
 

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On my '03 truck, the Edge Evolution CTS reads RP from the OBD-ll, so I was thinking with the proper scan tool and App, RP should show, Perhaps that is not the case. Sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
On my '03 truck, the Edge Evolution CTS reads RP from the OBD-ll, so I was thinking with the proper scan tool and App, RP should show, Perhaps that is not the case. Sorry.
Apology accepted, I hear Torque is great anyways and I have a blue-tooth that works with it, so thanks for the recommendation. Ill look into getting an actual fuel pressure gauge and adapter (I just need to buy one, I've needed one for years)



This miller fitting, part number 9012. I am willing to get it, but am impatient.

Would I be able to take off the forward banjo fitting on the fuel filter housing (So as to isolate PRV and CP-3 Return and then take lines from them into a bucket)

and then just put two 14 x 1.5 mm (I think that is the size of them) bolts into front and rear of the fuel filter housing in place of the banjo bolts? (The rear bolt would slide through the banjo fitting on the rear of the fuel filter housing to allow for injector return) Just thought it might work, was mulling it over last night


Furthermore, would it possible that excessive rail pressure would cause a hard start? I dont know at this point, I tried the FCA just one last time to confirm my suspicions.

Unplugging the FCA while running (while cold) resulted in a notable change in tone from the injectors (a harsher clack)

However, Unplugging the FCA while running (while hot, if I shut it off now it would stay off) resulting in no change in tone from the injectors

Blast it, I just need to go get a fuel pressure tester...:banghead:
 

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So I had a similar issue on a totally different truck. It was a 2006 Duramax. Not a Cummins so likely not the same issue. However, on my truck when it got hot the gasket and the fuel filter housing would stretch and expand and I would lose fuel pressure. In order to start it I would have to prime the fuel by pumping the top of the housing to build the pressure back up. Those engines do not have a lift pump like ours either. The fix on that was a new fuel filter housing which was cheap and easy.

I am just throwing that out there as a very similar situation. The truck ran fine until you shut it off then the gasket and housing would get hot and it was not possible to maintain pressure once you shut the engine off so it would not restart. It could stay running forever but could not be restarted.

So I have no idea if there is even the potential for a problem like this on our trucks but thought I would throw that out there. With an older, higher mileage truck you might be losing fuel pressure somewhere once it get warm/hot and things start to expand too. Again, that truck was designed with no lift pump and worked on vacuum with the cp3 pulling the fuel from the tank so could have zero relevance but I thought I would share this one.

Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So I had a similar issue on a totally different truck. It was a 2006 Duramax. Not a Cummins so likely not the same issue. However, on my truck when it got hot the gasket and the fuel filter housing would stretch and expand and I would lose fuel pressure. In order to start it I would have to prime the fuel by pumping the top of the housing to build the pressure back up. Those engines do not have a lift pump like ours either. The fix on that was a new fuel filter housing which was cheap and easy.

I am just throwing that out there as a very similar situation. The truck ran fine until you shut it off then the gasket and housing would get hot and it was not possible to maintain pressure once you shut the engine off so it would not restart. It could stay running forever but could not be restarted.

So I have no idea if there is even the potential for a problem like this on our trucks but thought I would throw that out there. With an older, higher mileage truck you might be losing fuel pressure somewhere once it get warm/hot and things start to expand too. Again, that truck was designed with no lift pump and worked on vacuum with the cp3 pulling the fuel from the tank so could have zero relevance but I thought I would share this one.

Good luck.


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Thanks, I appreciate it. Ill look at it. In principle, it should be similar (Both have large diameter seals over the fuel filter housing) My LMM actually had the same problem, I swapped to the CAT fuel filter housing. Fixed it right up.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Alright, went to re-torque the injector tube bolts again, and with a 1/4 of a turn stripped cylinder 5's out (must of been on there too tight <---shame on this guy right here). Ill get back to ya'll with the news once I pull the head...
 
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