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Discussion Starter #1
Been lurking, reading, searching, reading, etc for couple months on here...got TONS of very helpful information, and I appreciate everybody's input. Since this is my first post, and I am starting a new thread, feel free to flame and :spank: away, but after your done if you could point me in the correct direction that would be great.

As my sig says, I have a few minor upgrades done, with more planned. Not looking to make 700hp or anything, just opening up the ol' girl's potential a bit. I haul firewood during the winter, and occasionally haul some heavy equipment for my father-in-law's construction company, but that is rare and usually not long distances. Other than that it is a daily driven work truck.

I have been tinkering and tuning my AFC, took my fuel plate out, and am liking what I am getting. Injectors will come as soon as $$ come in, but I am considering milling my stock fuel plate to a 100 profile and putting it back in, if for no other reason than for curiosity's sake (I am not a cat, so its not too dangerous). I have read people's opinions on plate/no plate, which profile, etc. Not looking for that info. My problem is that I can find several threads with rough sketches or diagrams of different fuel plate profiles, but they all seem just slightly different. Does anybody have a concrete number on the radius dimension of the "ski jump" at the bottom of the 100 plate? I know it may take some tinkering, but should the radius change depending on other things (injectors, volumetric air flow potential, etc)?

I will be using my university machine shop's (a candy store for tinkerers like me) 3 axis vertical milling machine to cut it out. I don't particularly mind tinkering a bit or re-milling it to a different radius, but if someone has some concrete numbers that they have tried and proven I would appreciate it.

Sorry for the long-winded post, let the :spank: begin...
 

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If i end up pulling my plate out today to change positions ill get a micrometer to check the rise of the slope to get your radius, however I dont know if you are doing this for kicks and giggles but they are only 30 dollars on ebay
 

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take it out and grind it. its free and easy. it helped my truck out a lot! i used my old bench grinder at home nothing fancy
 

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Discussion Starter #4
zenzen: If you do, that would be great, did you order your plate? If so, who made it? I could buy one off Ebay, but if I have a 20,000 square feet of equipped shop space, nothing to do the rest of the day, and my stock fuel plate sitting on my desk, why not just have some fun and see results today?

blingblonger:I know you can just grind them, eyeball them, heck you could probably do it with a chisel and it would get you something over stock...but that's not exactly what I was after. I was looking for someone who has a 100 plate that they bought, and can give me the measurement. I am curious if different companies produce different radii to their slopes, or if there is one "tried and true" dimension that produces best performance.
 

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You're making way too much out of it, grinding a plate isn't rocket science.

 

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You're making way too much out of it, grinding a plate isn't rocket science.

:agree2: i took mine and with a sharpie made a mark how i wanted it then took an angle grinder to it. Worked well and i dont think that you are going to gain a single thing by milling it.

PS where in oregon are you at?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yes, yes, yes, I know you can simply grind it. I know this is not rocket science. ANY radius you grind in (heck, even a straight angle) will have some improvement over stock...thats not my question. I am TINKERING with fine tuning adjustments of my AFC system (washers, star screw, "smoke" screw, grinding the AFC foot for full rack travel, etc.) I could just keep running no plate, I like how I have things dialed in now.
My question is, companies that make aftermarket 100 plates do not just have monkeys with angle grinders and sand paper grinding barstock, they have a set machining operation that they follow. I am curious about what thier EXACT profile looks like. Are different manufacturers using slightly different profiles? If so, why? Are they all using identical ones? If so, how did they come to THAT profile. I like to tinker, and am currently pursuing my masters in manufacturing engineering, so I like to tinker with milling machines, CNC machines, welders, etc. I have studied thermal/fluid systems and machinery enough to know the differences that TINY details can make. This is more of an experiment than anything. I simply am curious, for those of you who BOUGHT a 100 plate, about what the EXACT profile looks like.

I am not saying I know everything about engines and our trucks. Far from it. I am relatively new to tuning diesels, and this is my first Cummins that I have owned (though I have wanted one for years), so I will probably be asking lots of questions and trying to absorb all the information on this forum. So don't take this as some smart kid who thinks he knows everything, I am just curious about different manufacturers' methods of producing the #100 fuel plate.
 

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12valvedriver: I am in Klamath Falls, little ways away from you, but good to know we got some Oregonians on this forum.
 

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My question is, companies that make aftermarket 100 plates do not just have monkeys with angle grinders and sand paper grinding barstock, they have a set machining operation that they follow. I am curious about what thier EXACT profile looks like. Are different manufacturers using slightly different profiles?
A Cummins engineer who later started TST originally designed the plate profiles. Anyone who is selling them and using his numbering system is basically just counterfeiting them.

He never designed or sold a #100 or #0, those designed by enthusiasts on message boards like this one with nothing but trial and error. There is no real standard or exact #100, they are homemade with some ebayer cashing in on his own homemade copy. His "company" is probably in a garage where he is the only worker.

The physics of how the #100 works is the taper (radius) towards the flat face ends where you have made enough rpm for the turbo to spool and reduce smoke. The ramp up to the flat face could be a straight line not a curve and it would work exactly the same.
To be truly scientific about it you would need to establish what rpm it is when spool up is reached and where that corresponds on the plate. That would vary with each truck depending on modifications.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ah, precisely the information I was looking for, THANK YOU. I kind of figured it would depend on the truck specifically, but I was hoping to have someone measure theirs (or one they had lying around) to figure out a starting point. Thanks again for the input.
 

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sorry I didnt have time to pull the plate for you was in a rush adjusting my valves and had to go this weekend is a possibility
 

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no worries, I am running plateless now, it was just something I wanted to tinker with. I am actually working on plans for a front bumper so I got plenty of things to keep me busy with. Thanks in advance if you get the time!
 

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you're overthinking it... the aftermarket companies that make 100 plates just have a radius and it's machined...

you could line up twenty different radius profiles and try them in your truck, and I can pretty much guarantee you wouldn't be able to discern a difference between any of them

the AFC is where the magic happens, not in the plate profile. If you have a properly tuned AFC, you don't need a plate at all

yes, yes, yes, I know you can simply grind it. I know this is not rocket science. ANY radius you grind in (heck, even a straight angle) will have some improvement over stock...thats not my question. I am TINKERING with fine tuning adjustments of my AFC system (washers, star screw, "smoke" screw, grinding the AFC foot for full rack travel, etc.) I could just keep running no plate, I like how I have things dialed in now.
My question is, companies that make aftermarket 100 plates do not just have monkeys with angle grinders and sand paper grinding barstock, they have a set machining operation that they follow. I am curious about what thier EXACT profile looks like. Are different manufacturers using slightly different profiles? If so, why? Are they all using identical ones? If so, how did they come to THAT profile. I like to tinker, and am currently pursuing my masters in manufacturing engineering, so I like to tinker with milling machines, CNC machines, welders, etc. I have studied thermal/fluid systems and machinery enough to know the differences that TINY details can make. This is more of an experiment than anything. I simply am curious, for those of you who BOUGHT a 100 plate, about what the EXACT profile looks like.

I am not saying I know everything about engines and our trucks. Far from it. I am relatively new to tuning diesels, and this is my first Cummins that I have owned (though I have wanted one for years), so I will probably be asking lots of questions and trying to absorb all the information on this forum. So don't take this as some smart kid who thinks he knows everything, I am just curious about different manufacturers' methods of producing the #100 fuel plate.
 

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if you get bigger injectors and a stock clutch put that plate back in for your clutches sake lol. i downgraded from 90 horse injectors to stockers and i cant beleive how much smoke and power i lost. im gonna pull the plate and tune the AFC to see what i can squease out of it as is. but im sure i wont burn the clutch apart with stock injectors if i drive halfassed sane :D
 

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Discussion Starter #15
"If you have a properly tuned AFC, you don't need a plate at all"

This is the key I think. Ever since I took the plate out and tuned the AFC, it seems that almost any profile I put in (I have tried two different "100" profiles that I machined), as long as the plate is fully forward and the majority of the material is gone, it doesn't seem to make any difference. This was more of an experiment than anything, I wanted to know how the "professionals" were machining them. I got the information I was looking for just by trial. (now time to sell the plates on craigslist!)

4320--I have a stock clutch for now, but I will leave it that way till it goes out, no sense fixing what aint broken yet. I still find that with plate out, properly tuned AFC (and injectors on the way) that my fuel economy improves significantly and the truck seems to have better drivability. As long as you don't flogg it everywhere you go, the stock clutch will handle it just fine for a while. Heck, at LIGHT throttle you aren't even touching the plate if its fully forward, plust the mpgs stay high. Last time I checked mileage I had a full bed of split and stacked firewood, drove 80 miles, crested a 5500 ft pass, and changed elevation from start to finish of about 2000 ft and still got 24mpg, can't really complain about that.
 

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Somewhere on here, or maybe somewhere else, there is a thread that talks about marking your plate with paint, and noting the marks made by the governor arm. If you do that you can see how much of your plates profile is actually being used to control fueling in you pump.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Very interesting, THANK YOU!

I had thought of this idea before, but did not like the idea of paint flecks (however small) getting into my pump and engine. I tried it with sharpie but diesel fuel has a tendency to eat away at the ink (I know, go figure. I thought it was worth a try)

May try it in the future, definitely going to go search for that thread right now...thanks again for the response!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
didn't have time to look much last night, but THANK YOU again for the info. That thread was very informative and interesting to read. My trouble now is I want to start tuning but I am getting injectors soon and its going to change everything...do I just wait or do it twice (or knowing me, many more times since now I want to tinker with cutting a custom plate)?

Anyway, thanks for the info. If you ever come down to Oregon I'll buy you a beer.:beer:
 

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Very interesting, THANK YOU!

I had thought of this idea before, but did not like the idea of paint flecks (however small) getting into my pump and engine. I tried it with sharpie but diesel fuel has a tendency to eat away at the ink (I know, go figure. I thought it was worth a try)

May try it in the future, definitely going to go search for that thread right now...thanks again for the response!
If you have diesel fuel in your pump getting at the plate you have big problems :rof That is engine oil in that section of the pump.
 
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