Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner
41 - 58 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Don't forget the M1A1 Abrams tank. It weighs 111,600 pounds and it's automatic transmission only has 4 forward gears.
An auto with only 4 speeds???? and it can take a 100,000+ pound piece of steel from plowing through deep mud in low gear and up to 60 mph in 4th How can that be???? The old semi trucks never left asphalt and needed 18 speeds to go 70 to 80 mph!!!!!!!! That sure makes standard transmissions look bad.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,759 Posts
That's enough lets keep on the topic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
This forum is for mechanically inclined individuals. You need to do your own research for what a torque convertor does and how it can lower the effective gear ratio. Think about what they use for truck pulling and why. You refer to creating lots of heat as it is a issue. For the same reasoning you dislike automatic transmissions, do you turn down the fuel settings (horse power) on your Cummins to reduce heat?
Heat is no problem as long as you take steps to have adequate heat rejection and monitor it's efficiency.
Then you want to interject semi trucks into the argument. Why stop there? How about stopping at your local quarry or mine whatever is in your area and ask to see a 100 ton haul truck or a face wheel loader and see if they have standard transmissions. Be careful you don't go into shock when you find out the answer.
And you maybe surprised to find out that excessive
exclamation points and emojis do not make you look smarter.
My point is most of the early dodge automatic transmissions were not built to withstand what the engine can put out, and were not a good match at that time. They cost a lot more $$$ to buy and repair than some of the more reliable manuals that were available at that time. The Getrag 5 speed manual also failed for the same reasons. The newer Aisin automatic is an outstanding transmission with a lot of excellent features. 6 correctly spaced forward gears, a correctly geared reverse, tow mode and very heavy duty design.

A torque converter can only do so much "multiplication". It will not take the place of necessary correct gearing. Tow enough heavy weight with the stock early autos that came in the Dodge behind the diesel and they will fail sooner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
The other consideration is how many drivers do you expect to have in your business? If you will be the only one then a manual might be best for you. If you will have anyone else driving your trucks, most employers choose autos. and like tires and brakes, a trans rebuild is the cost of doing business. Remember even the NV4500 is going to at least loose 5th. Then there is a brand new replacement for the NV4500 on the market but you will need to cut the driveshafts. And if you won't be on the highway too much, get 4:10 axle ratios.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
The other consideration is how many drivers do you expect to have in your business? If you will be the only one then a manual might be best for you. If you will have anyone else driving your trucks, most employers choose autos. and like tires and brakes, a trans rebuild is the cost of doing business. Remember even the NV4500 is going to at least loose 5th. Then there is a brand new replacement for the NV4500 on the market but you will need to cut the driveshafts.
Yes, good points you make. The NV4500 5th gear problem can be solved. Cutting driveshafts would be just a small part of a BIG job!!!
My point to the original post would be buy a truck with a RELIABLE transmission from the start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,118 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
OMG. I just took a look at the price they are asking. 12 valve trucks in good shape are getting a good price but that one is ridiculous by about $10,000. If we haven't scared you off and you read this, keep looking.
I for one keep them to use but with high regard to an investment. If maintained and kept stock, they will go up in value and will cost me nothing over years to have and drive. When I was a kid, I missed out on the hemi Cuda, Road Runners or Shelby Mustangs. I think original Cummins trucks are as close as you can get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Don't forget the M1A1 Abrams tank. It weighs 111,600 pounds and it's automatic transmission only has 4 forward gears.
Yes, a CORRECTLY DESIGNED automatic transmission for that application!

Early Dodge autos were originally designed for CARS, and NOT TRUCKS. They have 3 gears as that is all they needed for a car. Cars then were not expected to carry heavy weight like a diesel truck. Very poor engineering decision. "Torque multiplication" can't make up for the LACK OF LOW GEARS in those transmissions. That is why they NOW USE THE AISIN! It has 6 correctly designed forward gears and a correct reverse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,118 Posts
I for one keep them to use but with high regard to an investment. If maintained and kept stock, they will go up in value and will cost me nothing over years to have and drive. When I was a kid, I missed out on the hemi Cuda, Road Runners or Shelby Mustangs. I think original Cummins trucks are as close as you can get.
Thankyou for the morning chuckle. The only way to get a return on investment with a work truck is to put it to work. I think overall mine has paid for itself, in profits, ten or eleven times.

I'm restoring a 1954 Ford Sunliner. They are pretty rare, only 13,144 were built and very few have made it to 2021. It's a project born from sentiment, not an expectation of profit. New, they sold for $2245. Inflation rates have accumulated since then by over 10. $2245 X 10.28 = $23,079 No one thought this one was worth that much (except the owner apparently) https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1954-ford-skyliner.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
I for one keep them to use but with high regard to an investment. If maintained and kept stock, they will go up in value and will cost me nothing over years to have and drive. When I was a kid, I missed out on the hemi Cuda, Road Runners or Shelby Mustangs. I think original Cummins trucks are as close as you can get.
I've been wrong about other things before, but somehow I doubt that stock Dodge Cummins trucks will ever be a staple of the Barrett-Jackson.

Work trucks are just that, work trucks. Collector cars are rarely anything practical (think of how practical the "hemi Cuda, Road Runners or Shelby Mustangs" ,you used as examples are).
.
.
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
An auto with only 4 speeds???? and it can take a 100,000+ pound piece of steel from plowing through deep mud in low gear and up to 60 mph in 4th How can that be???? The old semi trucks never left asphalt and needed 18 speeds to go 70 to 80 mph!!!!!!!! That sure makes standard transmissions look bad.
"How can that be'?? Simple, It was DESIGNED CORRECTLY from beginning! Again, early Dodge automatics were designed for CARS, not for towing heavy weight. When they got to the latest Aisin 6 speed they got it right. The Aisin does not rely on "torque multiplication" LOL!, it is designed and geared correctly from the beginning. The Allison is also a very well designed automatic.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,345 Posts
290,000 on my stock 47RH... plenty of towing and snow plowing... still shifts decent



Definitely getting tired though!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,345 Posts
My 97 lost its original 47re at 270,000. Trick is to watch the temperature gauges, and when it gets hot take it easy, or stop.

I try to change the fluid every year or 25k which ever occurs first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
Valve bodies can be easily modified to allow lockup in all forward gears. The converter has to get you to about five mph and you can lock up. I’m not sure how a locked converter makes more heat as it is a clutch locked against a disc just like a flywheel. Fluid is still circulated and pressure is applied, but no converter heat to speak of and you have two coolers helping keep it cool.

You can take off, hit 5mph, let off a bit, click lockup, no slippage, ready for second gear? Unlock, shift to second and lockup again, repeat, repeat. Downshifts are just the same as a manual except before you hit the button, you give it some revs it engages fast.

Another gear would be nice, but will cost you.

Reverse on a 2wd is tougher, but on 4wd, you can easily shut off or block the vacuum to front axle and shift to low range. On steep inclines taking off with a big load, you can also start off in low range.

Unless you have a donor truck, the automatic to standard conversion is pretty spendy, and as GAmes has attested, they don’t last. Turn up the power a bit and stock clutches don’t last either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Valve bodies can be easily modified to allow lockup in all forward gears. The converter has to get you to about five mph and you can lock up. I’m not sure how a locked converter makes more heat as it is a clutch locked against a disc just like a flywheel. Fluid is still circulated and pressure is applied, but no converter heat to speak of and you have two coolers helping keep it cool.

You can take off, hit 5mph, let off a bit, click lockup, no slippage, ready for second gear? Unlock, shift to second and lockup again, repeat, repeat. Downshifts are just the same as a manual except before you hit the button, you give it some revs it engages fast.

Another gear would be nice, but will cost you.

Reverse on a 2wd is tougher, but on 4wd, you can easily shut off or block the vacuum to front axle and shift to low range. On steep inclines taking off with a big load, you can also start off in low range.

Unless you have a donor truck, the automatic to standard conversion is pretty spendy, and as GAmes has attested, they don’t last. Turn up the power a bit and stock clutches don’t last either.
Stock transmission's is what I was comparing. Sure, modifying can help but it is pricey! If a truck owner has a 2 wheel drive truck then no low range available and struggling again with heavy weight. My point was buy a truck that has a RELIABLE trans already in it. That would be the Aisin!
Then I guess since autos and manuals are both so terrible then we should all just walk!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,716 Posts
If it still has the original class 4 hitch I am pretty sure it was recalled and needed welding gussets in for reinforcement. On top of that I have seen them bend down and break from that same exact load. Simple answer is get a new better quality/rating hitch and use the weight distribution hitches as factory recommended for over 5000 lbs. Better shocks can help with bouncing. Using third in lockup is better than OD when towing on any grade at all. Using low range off road in dirt can help preserve trani. Read owners manual.
 
41 - 58 of 58 Posts
Top