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2013-2018 General Discussion General Chit Chat About the 2013 model year differences 6.7L 4th generation Cummins - NO ADVERTISING -

Thread: Drag link recall take 2 potentially! Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-09-2019 02:02 PM
nova3930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy N. View Post
Unless I'm overlooking something it should be;

Cut
Drill
Tap (x2)
Machine two flats for a wrench
Done

Or did you mean a split sleeve?
I was thinking the split sleeve where you don't have to disassemble the whole thing. Make it out of 4140PH and possibly encapsulate the whole original coupler. I could probably make it adjustable where it accommodates changes to your alignment.

For just a new coupler, crap, I'd make it out of 4140ph hex stock. Stuff cuts like butter with a 105ksi yield strength. Bore it on the lathe, cut to rough length, then thread mill and finish on the cnc. If I ever get my CNC lathe up and running I could automate it completely.....
12-09-2019 01:44 PM
Jimmy N.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nova3930 View Post
Might be worth investigating as a product for my side business. I'm low enough overhead I can do things pretty cheap as long as there's not many machining operations involved.....
Unless I'm overlooking something it should be;

Cut
Drill
Tap (x2)
Machine two flats for a wrench
Done

Or did you mean a split sleeve?
12-09-2019 01:41 PM
Jimmy N.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nova3930 View Post
The recall procedure gives the welder settings to use, but technique still plays a big role in getting a solid weld. Get a $%*^#^% welder on a monday after a party hard weekend and who knows what you get.
Oh, you obviously haven't seen the photos that some have posted of these "welds".
I doubt that I could make one as bad (and I'm not a great welder) if I tried. With flux core.
12-09-2019 01:26 PM
nova3930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy N. View Post
That seems to be the case, yes. And in one of the threads, someone posted a photo of an aftermarket sleeve. It wasn't expensive, either, and obviously it'd be easier to buy than making one. Not that making one would be hard.

I still think that there's a typical split sleeve with clamps that would fit these threads, but have never pursued it.
If my drag link sleeve starts showing any signs of failing, I will, unless Ram beats me to it with new parts.
Might be worth investigating as a product for my side business. I'm low enough overhead I can do things pretty cheap as long as there's not many machining operations involved.....
12-09-2019 01:17 PM
nova3930
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgoode View Post
Engineers probably said replace the entire drag link. REJECTED, then replace the adjustment sleeve, the part that is actually the problem, REJECTED Only other solution is weld it together. $$Accepted$$. Lock-tight will not stop the threads in that sleeve from failing, nor would jbweld. The force on the threads in that sleeve to turn those big tires would turn jb weld to dust.
My perspective as a practicing engineer, if you tell me to fix the problem while minimizing cost, my solution is going to be #2. Pull the drag link apart, inspect the rod threads to ensure there's no deformation, degradation or other damage and then replace the coupling nut with one that's in spec. It has the highest probability of solving the problem, with the minimum variability at the maintainer level. Past that I would say drill and pin but then you have the issues I outline before for the weld.

There are some industrial epoxy fillers you could use to repair the couplers, but it's high dollar stuff. The one I'm thinking of that might work is $55 for 3oz......

To me a big issue with the weld fix is the fact you're depending on the service techs and their individual welding skills for the success of the repair. The recall procedure gives the welder settings to use, but technique still plays a big role in getting a solid weld. Get a $%*^#^% welder on a monday after a party hard weekend and who knows what you get.

ETA

A high strength acrylic structural adhesive to bond the nuts to the coupler might be another option but again not cheap. Some variants we use to bond aircraft structural components together.....
12-09-2019 01:07 PM
Jimmy N.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nova3930 View Post
I suppose that means the coupling nut itself is failing, since if it was the threaded rod, welding would be ineffective itself.
That seems to be the case, yes. And in one of the threads, someone posted a photo of an aftermarket sleeve. It wasn't expensive, either, and obviously it'd be easier to buy than making one. Not that making one would be hard.

I still think that there's a typical split sleeve with clamps that would fit these threads, but have never pursued it.
If my drag link sleeve starts showing any signs of failing, I will, unless Ram beats me to it with new parts.
12-09-2019 12:28 PM
Xokia
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgoode View Post
While I already went with synergy, after inspecting the free play in the sleeve once the jam nuts are loosened, I bet NHTSA will force another recall. I do not feel those small tack welds is a solution to the real problem, barely a bandaid.
None of us really know what the problem is. On my truck the nuts were loose right of the lot when it was new. I’m the one who made the link long ago encouraging folks to file a NHTSA complaint because FCA would not address the issue.

I tightened mine properly back in 2015 and It has never come loose since. I’m wondering if the weld is just to cover up that the sleeve was damaged from driving around loose before it was inspected. Once the threads are damaged tightening the nuts will do no good.

Loctite on undamaged threads is better then a weld on damaged threads JMO. If the threads are damaged then the nut threads are taking the load. I doubt those nuts have enough threads to support that load.
12-09-2019 09:13 AM
cjgoode
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnow101 View Post
My guess is that corporate bean counters had much more input into the approval process then the engineering side of the house.
Engineers probably said replace the entire drag link. REJECTED, then replace the adjustment sleeve, the part that is actually the problem, REJECTED Only other solution is weld it together. $$Accepted$$. Lock-tight will not stop the threads in that sleeve from failing, nor would jbweld. The force on the threads in that sleeve to turn those big tires would turn jb weld to dust.

While I already went with synergy, after inspecting the free play in the sleeve once the jam nuts are loosened, I bet NHTSA will force another recall. I do not feel those small tack welds is a solution to the real problem, barely a bandaid.
12-09-2019 08:58 AM
Minnow101
Quote:
Originally Posted by nova3930 View Post
The weld up is a hack of a fix. The engineers who came up with it should be ashamed of themselves.....
My guess is that corporate bean counters had much more input into the approval process then the engineering side of the house.

The real internal argument between engineering and accounting was what was cheaper; welding the nuts or slathering the threads with JB Weld. FCA determined that since dealer techs would potentially use more JB then needed, that fix would cost the company $1.34 per 100,000 recalls so the JB was nixed. Besides, the welding gives the dudes exclusively assigned to oil changes and the car wash rack the ability to learn how to weld.
12-09-2019 01:03 AM
nova3930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lins View Post
The torque check is to make sure the threads donít fail somewhere in the assembly - moreso between the sleeve and rods I believe. The assembly is very sloppy - probably why the nuts back off at some point. If the nuts are found loose when the truck goes in, the techs are supposed to measure the inside and outside of the threads to ensure there is enough engagement before going any further. I think they know what the issue is, they just didnít want to pay for all new drag links for every truck. I think theyíll likely have to now.
I just found the recall procedure and it looks to be a manufacturing defect. They want a minimum of 25 thou thread engagement, which off the top of my head works out to a 50% thread engagement for that size thread. Since the jam nuts aren't failing I'd say the rod and nuts are in spec and the ID of the coupler is oversized.
12-09-2019 12:38 AM
Lins
Quote:
Originally Posted by nova3930 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy07 View Post
I’m sure either one of these would be a perfect solution....if they had anything whatsoever to do with the issue that the recall addresses.
Then I've misunderstood the issue. I haven't dug into deeply and just assumed it was at least partly due to the torque check they do as part of the recall.

I suppose that means the coupling nut itself is failing, since if it was the threaded rod, welding would be ineffective itself. There's still standard mitigations for that. Cross drill and place a HD coil spring pin in double shear to take some of load off the threads.
The torque check is to make sure the threads don’t fail somewhere in the assembly - moreso between the sleeve and rods I believe. The assembly is very sloppy - probably why the nuts back off at some point. If the nuts are found loose when the truck goes in, the techs are supposed to measure the inside and outside of the threads to ensure there is enough engagement before going any further. I think they know what the issue is, they just didn’t want to pay for all new drag links for every truck. I think they’ll likely have to now.
12-09-2019 12:27 AM
nova3930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy07 View Post
Iím sure either one of these would be a perfect solution....if they had anything whatsoever to do with the issue that the recall addresses.
Then I've misunderstood the issue. I haven't dug into deeply and just assumed it was at least partly due to the torque check they do as part of the recall.

I suppose that means the coupling nut itself is failing, since if it was the threaded rod, welding would be ineffective itself. There's still standard mitigations for that. Cross drill and place a HD coil spring pin in double shear to take some of load off the threads.
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