Topic Review (Newest First) |
08-28-2019 07:58 PM | |
the man in black | So you can get all 8 injectors out with out removing the cab? |
08-28-2019 07:14 PM | |
BTGreen |
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyman859
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Why do guys dislike the idea of having to pull the cab to get to injectors on a Powerstroke? I’m sure many mechanics don’t mind because they get paid by the hour…whether theyre pulling a cab or replacing break rotors. And they have an absurd amount of equipment to work with. The average truck owner wants a truck they can work on in theyre garage or driveway with a modest complement of tools, if necessary. Having to pull a cab to get at injectors is absurd. It just is.
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08-28-2019 07:05 PM | |
BTGreen |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownmember
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTGreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepcalm0311
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As a mechanical engineer, I am going to give RAM the benefit of the doubt that the CP4 went through further testing and evaluation and was revised.
You don't redesign a truck, with an HO motor (with different internals), an Aisin transmission, and pair it with a flawed fuel pump. Theres just no way they did that. Many people like to bash on manufacturers but don't like to admit they used fuel from the 'cheap' station down the road or never drained the water seperator on schedule. I feel you give RAM waayy too much credit if you think their past performance is indicative of a positive, problem free future. Remember, this is the same company that usually has 10 open recalls per model year. I firmly believe if the truck engine, any brand, is maintained well and according to schedule, it will provide a long reliable service life. I get this is a RAM forum, but let's not loose a grip on reality here. Also, how do I know you maintained the truck properly? Because you said so? Did you always use fuels with a minimum 520 micron HFRR? Did you use fuel additives that increased fuel lubricity? While we're at it I have a bridge to sell you if you believe the fuels here are perfect. Yes, there were many issues with early GM pumps failing, but why would it come as a surprise if the fuel given to the pump was not adequate? These pumps were engineered to run with a MINIMUM requirement of lubricity. The moment the fuel quality drops or supply psi from tank drops you will have a failure. I said this quite clearly in my first post. Yes, shame on GM for not issuing a tsb sooner to mandate fuel additives. The people who realized this early on have hundreds of thousands of miles on their horrible cp4 pumps. The Ford's, as I mentioned before, had a much much less failure rate. As to why I believe Ford had a better tank pump supply and larger water separator. It's the nature of design to meet stringent emission requirements as well as quiet operation. Enter the 19 Cummins. |
08-28-2019 02:18 PM | |
libertyman859 | Why do guys dislike the idea of having to pull the cab to get to injectors on a Powerstroke? I’m sure many mechanics don’t mind because they get paid by the hour…whether theyre pulling a cab or replacing break rotors. And they have an absurd amount of equipment to work with. The average truck owner wants a truck they can work on in theyre garage or driveway with a modest complement of tools, if necessary. Having to pull a cab to get at injectors is absurd. It just is. |
08-27-2019 10:58 PM | |
willydmax |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indytruckchampion
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I have a good friend that's a Ford master diesel tech. He hates working on the new diesels. The cab has to be removed (been that way for a while) and it takes hours to get to anything vital. Ford warranty doesn't pay well and most of the time the claim is denied for warranty. If he wasn't so close to retiring he would have left in the last few years because of all the behind the scenes junk going on at Ford.
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08-27-2019 10:10 PM | |
Bedlam |
The F650 and F750 use a flip front and the same cab as the pickup but a different frame. No idea about crash testing this setup. The entire F series share cabs. The F450 pickup is more like a F400. The F450 chassis cab compares favorably to the Ram 4500. Ram does not have a counterpart to the F450 pickup and the 3500 lacks the heavy Dana, wide track front and 19.5” wheels. |
08-27-2019 08:20 PM | |
Brownmember |
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTGreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepcalm0311
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As a mechanical engineer, I am going to give RAM the benefit of the doubt that the CP4 went through further testing and evaluation and was revised.
You don't redesign a truck, with an HO motor (with different internals), an Aisin transmission, and pair it with a flawed fuel pump. Theres just no way they did that. Many people like to bash on manufacturers but don't like to admit they used fuel from the 'cheap' station down the road or never drained the water seperator on schedule. I feel you give RAM waayy too much credit if you think their past performance is indicative of a positive, problem free future. Remember, this is the same company that usually has 10 open recalls per model year. I firmly believe if the truck engine, any brand, is maintained well and according to schedule, it will provide a long reliable service life. I get this is a RAM forum, but let's not loose a grip on reality here. |
08-27-2019 07:56 PM | |
marty0715 | Dumber than words can describe. 3 cooling systems!! |
08-27-2019 07:12 PM | |
BTGreen |
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pozzinator
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And to another point above: I think F-series maintains its “best selling” rating because of fleet sales. That and ford refuses to acknowledge that GMC and Chevy are the same, and I seem to recall that in the 1500-3500 segment the combined GM sales are higher than ford. But then again they also insist the 450 is a 1-ton and refuse to compare it to a Ram 4500 (because it’ll get smoked). Buddy of mine is a powerstroke mechanic for a dealer in Dallas. His dad is a PS mechanic in Tampa. His whole family drives Cummins. PS owners pay for their really, really nice houses - Cummins trucks get them to work and back reliably day in and day out with just routine maintenance. My cousin is a process engineer for fomoco in Michigan. He drives a Ram too. That tells me everything I really need to know about the Cummins vs PS debate... I'm glad your buddy and his dad and family and your cousin are all happy driving Rams and fixing Fords all day long. It's amazing how Ford even stays in business, those fleet managers must be really stupid to keep choosing these Fords. Must be losing millions of dollars paying your buddy and his dad and family members to fix them day in and out. Makes you wonder how they even get any work done if all these Fords are breakin' down? Your buddy and his dad should just tell them to buy the uber reliable RAM with the Cummins. I mean it'd be great for the taxpayer for all those government fleets, the millions they would save. We all know the entire RAM product is perfection in design and utility. I mean with just fluids and filters they run, like, a million miles. Even the tires last 100K. |
08-26-2019 02:34 PM | |
El Pozzinator |
We’re already seeing that. GM and Tesla have sued over “intellectual property rights” trying to keep right-to-repair laws from getting passed. Those suits failed because they wanted to sell consumers the product but grant no outside access to the software or diagnostic tools to service it. Failure to pass those laws would’ve meant their vehicles could only be serviced by dealers or authorized repair facilities - Tesla in large part still is anyway due to the sheer complexity of their software and relative lack of people willing to pony up for the licenses or a shagged vehicle to practice on. And to another point above: I think F-series maintains its “best selling” rating because of fleet sales. That and ford refuses to acknowledge that GMC and Chevy are the same, and I seem to recall that in the 1500-3500 segment the combined GM sales are higher than ford. But then again they also insist the 450 is a 1-ton and refuse to compare it to a Ram 4500 (because it’ll get smoked). Buddy of mine is a powerstroke mechanic for a dealer in Dallas. His dad is a PS mechanic in Tampa. His whole family drives Cummins. PS owners pay for their really, really nice houses - Cummins trucks get them to work and back reliably day in and day out with just routine maintenance. My cousin is a process engineer for fomoco in Michigan. He drives a Ram too. That tells me everything I really need to know about the Cummins vs PS debate... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
08-26-2019 01:34 PM | |
EricPeterson |
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTGreen
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You have some good points. I look at the probability of it even cropping up, which I why I don't understand the issue most on here bring it up ..... Many truck buyers don't even keep the vehicles longer than the warranty period, which is another reason why I don't get the griping.
And I say that fully and enthusiastically entrenched in the crotchety codger camp! At some point we're going to see vehicles with drive system access panels that can only be opened with special tools and big warnings that say NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE. And I, for one, God willing, will still be griping about it. JMHOs |
08-26-2019 01:04 PM | |
BTGreen |
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricPeterson
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I think you were meaning to respond to someone else's comment. I was addressing only the notion that it would take minimal engineering to design a tilt cab assembly.
However, I think you're missing another point. While I don't plan on doing anything major to my drivetrain while it's under warranty -- and I've got a 7/84 max care plan -- I regularly do major work on our other vehicles that have no such luxury. Looking around here it's clear that a lot of buys with older Rams regularly swap engines as well. For those of us who don't have access to a shop with a flexible 4-point lift, needing to pull a cab or a subframe to get to an engine is a big deal. My wife's Caddy succumbed to an accursed GM early timing chain failure -- an otherwise near new condition car just out of warranty suffered a catastrophic engine failure at just over 50k miles. The dealer wanted $11k to do that repair. Like heck I'm going to pay that when the long block was $3400 delivered. By the book, it's not possible to pull that quad OHC engine without doing it from underneath by dropping the subframe. The huge hemi heads totally block access to the upper transmission bolts. I don't happen to have a 4-point lift with swingarms to hold the unibody up while I drop the subframe, and I wasn't willing to do that with a pair -- or quartet -- of simple floor jacks. Pulling the blown engine was no big deal: I'd already torn it down for diagnosis and the heads were off. Installing the new engine without dropping the subframe meant, however, tearing it down -- including the gawdawful three-chain-six-tensioner-umpteen-plastic-guideway timing chain setup -- on the stand and then building it back up in place under the hood. That's a royal pain. And it's bad design -- a few fist-sized dents in the firewall would have mitigated the necessity of either dropping the subframe or swapping the engine in major modules. Lifting a cab to swap an engine would be even less practical without a lift, and might not have a comparable workaround, no matter how much extra labor is involved. People who ultimately want to do their own major repairs aren't so much going to balk at the scope or breadth of the repair. Rather, they're going to be stymied by the lack of access to the proper equipment. I, for one, would not want to mess with trying to jack a cab off a chassis without the lift. JMHO The failure rate of the CP4 is easily less than 1 in 500 trucks, couple that with failure out of warranty, the requirement that the customer fix his/her own truck, and the requirement that said customer has no means of lifting the cab; it is of inappreciable probability. However it is the #1 topic that gets brought up here about Ford. Do people really think Ford would be the best selling brand if all this doom and gloom was happening? Many truck buyers don't even keep the vehicles longer than the warranty period, which is another reason why I don't get the griping. If the worry of a major failure is this important, then I'd suggest staying with a pure mechanical 5.9 Cummins or 7.3/6.9 Ford and go all out Madmax style. Most of these new trucks will have many ancillary component failures long before a major one. |
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