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3rd Gen. Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

Thread: 06 5.9 New Injectors - questionable mpg Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-16-2019 02:54 PM
24hrsparkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperf2007 View Post
Thank you very much. I guess i will leave it alone. Yes i am in Minnesota so temps are hardly above 40 right now.
Everything you said makes sense. I won't bother pulling anything down. I will hope to see better fuel mileage when it warms up.
You might still be on Winter Blend fuel ,,, winter fuel is -1 or -2 mpg from the get go. Just a thought .
04-16-2019 11:59 AM
steve05ram360 Yes... yes you do. I need to update the HP Tuners thread with some latest findings... I am pretty sure mpg has jumped again & may be closer to mid 22's this tank... in cold weather.
04-16-2019 10:44 AM
59turbo Man, I really have to try and get a handle on tuning my truck with HP tuner. The gains you guys get is amazing.
04-15-2019 08:37 AM
steve05ram360 Go back to the stock airbox with an afe torque tube or cool hose with an afe pg7 drop in filter. I woukd bet hour mpg would jump ~1 mpg. Then do the 200* tstat.

Did you do any of the suggestions i made earlier in the thread?

And hand calculate a few tanks to validate the bully readings...
04-13-2019 07:31 AM
hiperf2007 Since i i posted this i have been averaging 13.87 mpg. Bullydog shows roughly 13.5mpg so i back off my -14% to -12%. Plan to run that for awhile.
Yesterday coming home tanked my mpg due to a 45 mph head wind. I think my live reading was 8-10 straight into the wind. Probably not too terrible running 70-75 daily. Every day heading home it always seems like i am into a head wind. Another path just on highway doing 60 it seems to show 16/17 mpg but i haven't taken that path for a full tank because i would like to get take a straight shot to work.
04-02-2019 09:08 AM
steve05ram360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis Rex View Post
You can never have enough cars, just not enough space and not enough time!

My 70 Challenger has been off the road for 9 years because I keep getting distracted, last year it was my XJR and now its this beast!

Thanks for documenting all your methodical MPG experiments BTW.

I know engineers who calibrate diesels to get through emissions and driveability for OEMs who are less methodical and less detail orientated than you!

As I look at my map and tune via HP Tuners, I'm looking at timing tables I have of Hyundai industrial diesel engines, a 6.7 cummins and a commercial 2003 5.9 cummins for comparison but the stuff I have isn't as extensive as your stuff!

Thanks again.

My brother used to have a 70 Cuda... that was a fun car.

Always glad to share the info and glad it helps some. The biggest thing I've learned is there is really only one right answer when it comes to tuning, having the pressure spike occur at the right time for the given amount of fuel & air. The hard part is getting it consistent under all conditions. The push I got from Cpitock to retune in the cold was an awesome push...! Absolutely love the way the truck runs now.
04-02-2019 09:01 AM
Marquis Rex
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
Well there's your problem right there... should only be 1 project truck
You can never have enough cars, just not enough space and not enough time!

My 70 Challenger has been off the road for 9 years because I keep getting distracted, last year it was my XJR and now its this beast!

Thanks for documenting all your methodical MPG experiments BTW.

I know engineers who calibrate diesels to get through emissions and driveability for OEMs who are less methodical and less detail orientated than you!

As I look at my map and tune via HP Tuners, I'm looking at timing tables I have of Hyundai industrial diesel engines, a 6.7 cummins and a commercial 2003 5.9 cummins for comparison but the stuff I have isn't as extensive as your stuff!

Thanks again.
04-02-2019 08:43 AM
steve05ram360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis Rex View Post
Steve, yes it would but I can only do so much right now. That would involve taking the radiator and intercooler out. I will do it, and I may either use a hammilton or design my own cam, but it makes sense to do it when I get my head gasket and bolts done.

I need to focus on my other projects, I have 14 cars!
Well there's your problem right there... should only be 1 project truck
04-01-2019 05:51 PM
Marquis Rex Steve, yes it would but I can only do so much right now. That would involve taking the radiator and intercooler out. I will do it, and I may either use a hammilton or design my own cam, but it makes sense to do it when I get my head gasket and bolts done.

I need to focus on my other projects, I have 14 cars!
04-01-2019 05:38 PM
steve05ram360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis Rex View Post
I just changed my injectors. I HATE the combustion bowl on the 05-07 5.9s.

I've come from diesel combustion development (amongst other things) and lead the development of a commercial diesel engine (a Korean OEM) where I made sure we benchmarked the Cummins motor.

I like re-enterant 2- step bowls with a taller central pip. When I later worked for Navistar their data tallied up to my experience.

Well, the 05-07 5.9s have a shallow bowl and 5 big holes. My theory was that it was design to minimize Nox emissions with no EGR or aftertreatment.

When I got access to the maps- I see a whole load of retard.

Anyway- back to story, I specify 8 hole VCO injectors (rather than the SAC) and they're 60% over. I specified the injector spray angle to be the earlier 143 deg rather than the 124 deg. I checked with my spread sheet to check for bowl impingement and it all looks pretty safe. In addition, even with 60% over, the actual holes are still smaller than the stock 5 holes. Its just the angle mismatch.
I cant afford new earlier pistons right now, so I went with it. In all likelihood, what will happen is that the incylinder mixing will get worse- which means- worse HCs, may be lower Nox (than an 03-04 bowl) but may be higher than stock 05-07.5. Higher Nox usually goes hand in hand with higher efficiency in my experience.

Well, low and behold the engine burns really clean even with the mismatch.

Right now I'm not looking for more power- as I haven't rebuilt/reinforced my trans yet. I'm optimizing my fuel economy.

Just from a weekend of mucking about- I went up from the usual 15-16 mpg to 17 mpg, from increasing rail pressure, changing the pedal map and messing with the timing.

The timing on the 05-07.5 seems to be heavily retarded and I compared it to the 03s and theyre not so much- which adds fuel to my Nox optimization theory.
wouldnt it be better to also have the older cam profile in there as well? the 04.5-07 cams have the in cylinder egr effect going on.
04-01-2019 05:36 PM
steve05ram360 Yes but you'd be doing it blind... you could take over the baro sensor on the airbox and adjust its output. You'd need to be monitoring the sensor & performance to know how much to adjust.

I have played with the baro correction recently and noted that when the pressure is @ 14.8psi, truck runs better than when @ 14.6 psi. Took a stab at the correction table with a very minor tweek and I could see a change, pretty sure I did not log it to verify, just left it as it was and rolled on.
04-01-2019 04:54 PM
hiperf2007 I haven't really looked hard into over just running this bullydog 40420? But is there a way to manually play with timing? Something to plug in a trick?
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