Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum - Reply to Topic
94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

Thread: 300-350 hp in a 1996 12 valve 3500 Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-18-2019 11:48 AM
RamCumminsRob No magic to skill.
Hard work, time on the job, brains or hire a competent establishment.
Easy!
04-18-2019 08:29 AM
hingis1320 So i spent some time researching the AFC live with max travel kit.

I understand it all.

So in a hypothetical scenario (cuz i still havent made up my mind), id get a boost elbow and then get the AFC live with max travel kit rated for 30-35 psi boost.

They remove the fuel plate, replace that foot in the afc with their modified one. replace afc springs and crank the starwheel until it bottoms out.

Say id have a 3000 gsk, and BHAF... what could i expect for MAX hp and tq in this situation? feel like after tuning the afc live to whatever i desire, it would be pushing over 350hp? it just seems like you can get so much control and power with a properly set up and tune afc live. Just curious tho, i think theres a dyno run where they compare the stock to afc live but i havent gotten the change to find it yet.

***EDIT: I watched their dyno video, they took a stock truck (although i noticed the AFE stage 2 cold air intake on it lol) and double the horse and tripled the torque.. i feel like they had to do something else other than just put an afc live unit on the truck, those numbers just sound crazy
04-18-2019 08:16 AM
hingis1320 Stox

I love it lol i didnt think this many people would respond either. but im taking in all the info, weighing out prices, seeing what needs what and making an informed decision on what to do!

so thanks everyone with the responses keep em coming im learning lots just reading this and researching all around.

Its not that i know nothing about 12 valves, i just know nothing about modding them lol ive owned two, the one before this was turned up.. no idea what exactly was done but i know it was on its way to making some power... but the frame was getting bad and when i was able to sell it for more than i paid with the buyer well aware of all of its issues.. well that was a no brainer! and then i got my hands on this old stocker and the old man sold it to me for cheap so i had to take it, but mad it does not have the balls that my other truck had thats why im kinda getting sick of the stock truck and wanna do a few things!
04-17-2019 09:00 PM
Stox225
300-350 hp in a 1996 12 valve 3500

Boy this thread blew up haha. All this for 350hp? GD fellas lol. I miss the good olí days where @GAmes would make some condescending comment regarding his lack of ability to use the search function lol.


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04-17-2019 05:43 PM
dauntless89 A Glomar response is the best I can do on that one.

Such a situation would be rife with complexity. A forum staff member openly discussing a connection with a shop could leave room for a perception of bias or conflict of interest during the execution of the staff member's impartial moderating duties. Such a staff member which such a relationship, if one existed, would have a thin line to walk when the associated shop's parts or services comes up.
04-17-2019 04:46 PM
SFGiants
Quote:
Originally Posted by dauntless89 View Post
055s are an extremely mild DV and make for a nice increase in throttle response without any other ill effects. That said, no DV is a "bottleneck" in the 300hp range. That's an issue you start dealing with at 500+ horsepower.
Thanks for the correction, Dauntless.

I see you're in Cedar City, are you affiliated with PDD by chance?
04-17-2019 03:40 PM
dauntless89 055s are an extremely mild DV and make for a nice increase in throttle response without any other ill effects. That said, no DV is a "bottleneck" in the 300hp range. That's an issue you start dealing with at 500+ horsepower.
04-17-2019 03:13 PM
SFGiants
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAmes View Post
That might or not be true, a generalization with no basis in fact. The 180 pumps seem to have a low rpm defueling issue, but the two 215 pumps I have had installed on my engine did not. My stock engine would not defuel until about 2900 rpm prior to temporarily installing a 3k kit. (trying to defeat the big gap between 3rd and 4th in the NV4500) Then it would defuel at about 3100, but low rpm torque suffered. I have the stock springs reinstalled and a spare set for when they finally get weak from use.

I also disagree about delivery valves. They are the least bang for the buck power enhancement product available, and usually result in a hot smoky engine, just like pushing the stock plate full forward. They certainly aren't needed for 300 to 350 HP with a 215 p-pump.
Fair enough. Do keep in mind, hingis, my truck contains the lower performance 180-hp pump found in the automatics. Governor springs are a requirement in these trucks - I think this is widely accepted and there is indeed a massive issue with premature de-fueling on them. I have never even driven a manual trans 12-valve, and believe GAmes when he says they de-fuel at a much higher RPM. On my truck, the de-fueling at ~2200 is quite apparent. Try taking your truck to redline, and take note of how the motor behaves. If you don't notice a glaring, significant drop in power before 2900 RPM, you're probably fine keeping what you have. FWIW, I do believe a fair amount of guys on the forum still run 3k or 4k gov springs w/ their 215 pumps.

Regarding delivery valves, I got sold on the PDD 375-hp fuel package, which contained AFC Live Max Travel, governor springs, and 055 DV's. I installed all the mods at once so I cannot with certainty say whether or not these different DV's made a difference. What I can say for certain is collectively, they made for an entirely new truck, and my motor does not get overly hot or smoky unless I max-out the fuel rate knob on the AFC Live (which I believe is to be expected). What I'm unsure of is if the DV's differ between 180 & 215 pumps.
04-17-2019 02:52 PM
Destroked 450 AFC Live simplifies the tuning process but it's not a bolt it on and forget it thing.

For the power levels your looking for, 3k gsk, 10 plate and afc spring kit or AFC Live with Max travel kit, boost elbow or boost controller.
That will easily get you in the 300-325 hp range.
04-17-2019 02:48 PM
GAmes
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFGiants View Post
The 3k governor springs are a minimum. Your truck starts to defuel at about 2300 RPM with the stock springs, leaving much of the power-band useless. You could also benefit from larger delivery valves - these are what supply fuel from the injection pump to the injector hard lines. They're the 6 inline nozzle parts on top of the pump, and represent another bottleneck in the stock fuel system.
That might or not be true, a generalization with no basis in fact. The 180 pumps seem to have a low rpm defueling issue, but the two 215 pumps I have had installed on my engine did not. My stock engine would not defuel until about 2900 rpm prior to temporarily installing a 3k kit. (trying to defeat the big gap between 3rd and 4th in the NV4500) Then it would defuel at about 3100, but low rpm torque suffered. I have the stock springs reinstalled and a spare set for when they finally get weak from use.

I also disagree about delivery valves. They are the least bang for the buck power enhancement product available, and usually result in a hot smoky engine, just like pushing the stock plate full forward. They certainly aren't needed for 300 to 350 HP with a 215 p-pump.
04-17-2019 02:26 PM
SFGiants The 3k governor springs are a minimum. Your truck starts to defuel at about 2300 RPM with the stock springs, leaving much of the power-band useless. You could also benefit from larger delivery valves - these are what supply fuel from the injection pump to the injector hard lines. They're the 6 inline nozzle parts on top of the pump, and represent another bottleneck in the stock fuel system.

Regarding the fuel plate, I simply removed mine like Stox. If you aren't running a crazy lift pump and injectors, I don't think you really need one. A tech at Power Driven Diesel said with my setup, that is 4K Gov springs, 055 DV's (one size up from stock), stock injectors & lift pump, having one in or out wouldn't make a difference.

When you remove your AFC to modify it for AFC Live (be sure to get the "Max Travel Kit" btw), there are instructions for how to adjust the star wheel. You will notice the AFC's mounting holes are also channeled, which allows for macro-adjustments of fueling in the pump. The more forward (away from cab) the AFC sits on the P-pump, the more pre-boost fueling you will get. If you install AFC Live, you really have four different fueling adjustments in total, going from largest adjustment increment to smallest:

1. AFC Position (forward or aft) on the pump
2. Star wheel inside AFC
3. Smoke screw on back of AFC
4. AFC Live in cab

All of these will have an effect on fuel mileage and EGT's. More fueling = higher EGT's (and obviously reduced MPG's). For tuning purposes, when you goose the throttle from idle, you want a faint cloud of black smoke. This is the optimal balance of getting enough pre-boost fuel so as to not starve the motor and leave power on the table, but not too much you're just needlessly farting clouds of smoke that is just wasted diesel.

Tuning all these things takes patience. Expect to spend a few hours making adjustments and doing test drives after the initial install.
04-17-2019 01:51 PM
YogiBayer
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamCumminsRob View Post
Whoa, this is the internet!
We men do not make mistakes.
Beer is truth serum.
And most importantly,
It is all on the level.
As Homer Simpson said "Beer the reason for, and the answer to, all of life's problems."
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