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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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02 24v to first gen swap question

I haven't been able to find any how to style posts about swapping a 24v into a first gen, hopefully someone could help me, or link me to a post? The only posts I've been able to find are the ones asking if it's possible. Sorry if this has been answered a million times.

Currently have a 84 crew cab and an 89 cab and chassis that I'm doing a cab swap on, I don't have a 12v but I do have a 24v with everything I'd need to do a swap. I just need to know what all I can and can't use to do the swap. Thanks.

Sorry if this has been asked a million times, I just haven't found anything, probably just my lack of knowing where to search.

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RetroDodge View Post
I haven't been able to find any how to style posts about swapping a 24v into a first gen, hopefully someone could help me, or link me to a post? The only posts I've been able to find are the ones asking if it's possible. Sorry if this has been answered a million times.

Currently have a 84 crew cab and an 89 cab and chassis that I'm doing a cab swap on, I don't have a 12v but I do have a 24v with everything I'd need to do a swap. I just need to know what all I can and can't use to do the swap. Thanks.

Sorry if this has been asked a million times, I just haven't found anything, probably just my lack of knowing where to search.
The 02 24v block bolts up the same as any 12v the swap should be the same process. What injection pump are you using? If your sticking with the factory one that poses some struggles but definitely not impossible.
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to use the vp44 that's on the engine. The only issue I really have with the swap would be the obd2. I don't know how it is wired. I don't know if the Cummins ecm sends a signal to the Dodge PCM and then from there goes to obd2 or if it's just Cummins to obd2.

I have enough electrical experience and wiring diagrams that I can make a custom gauge cluster and whatnot. I'm sure I'll come across other questions farther down the road but that's my only issue at this very moment.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RetroDodge View Post
I'm going to use the vp44 that's on the engine. The only issue I really have with the swap would be the obd2. I don't know how it is wired. I don't know if the Cummins ecm sends a signal to the Dodge PCM and then from there goes to obd2 or if it's just Cummins to obd2.

I have enough electrical experience and wiring diagrams that I can make a custom gauge cluster and whatnot. I'm sure I'll come across other questions farther down the road but that's my only issue at this very moment.
I'll move this to the Conversion section where the 24v swaps have been done.

84 K5 Blazer 97 12v, 47re with E-TransControl, Dodge Dana 60 with free spin hubs, Dana 70, B&M Mega shifter

96 F350 SC dually zf5, 4x4, 92 Cummins, THD 5x12's, THD fuel pin, THD HVLP with adjustable fuel pressure mod, WM, h1c 60/60/12cm WG wired
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
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Why would using the vp44 be hard to do? I assumed that it was told how much fuel to inject based off the information the ECM was sending it? If that's the case there shouldn't be any issues at all, unless I'm misunderstanding why it would be difficult.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:42 AM
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You have to use the Cummins ECM that is on the engine so that the engine will run. If you find some 24v swapped trucks in this Conversion Section i'm sure someone has the info needed to make the swap work because it's been done many times.

I only do 12v's because they are simple.

84 K5 Blazer 97 12v, 47re with E-TransControl, Dodge Dana 60 with free spin hubs, Dana 70, B&M Mega shifter

96 F350 SC dually zf5, 4x4, 92 Cummins, THD 5x12's, THD fuel pin, THD HVLP with adjustable fuel pressure mod, WM, h1c 60/60/12cm WG wired
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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You have to use the Cummins ECM that is on the engine so that the engine will run. If you find some 24v swapped trucks in this Conversion Section i'm sure someone has the info needed to make the swap work because it's been done many times.

I only do 12v's because they are simple.
I do have the Cummins ecm for the 24v, I have an entire 02 2500 at my disposal, my brother in law wrecked it but the engine is salvageable. So at that point is this swap going to be easier than what everyone makes it out to be? Seems like people shy away from any vp44 fuel system swaps, my main concern with the swap is if I had to use the 02's PCM for some things, only reason for that concern is because there are inputs the PCM is looking for and I was afraid I'd run into issues with that.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 10:32 AM
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I do have the Cummins ecm for the 24v, I have an entire 02 2500 at my disposal, my brother in law wrecked it but the engine is salvageable. So at that point is this swap going to be easier than what everyone makes it out to be? Seems like people shy away from any vp44 fuel system swaps, my main concern with the swap is if I had to use the 02's PCM for some things, only reason for that concern is because there are inputs the PCM is looking for and I was afraid I'd run into issues with that.
Most people say stay away from anything that's not a 12v swap, 24v's are more complicated because of the electronics. You could always P-Pump it and make it mechanical and get away from the electronics.

There are people that have done the swaps either read through there builds or someone should comment and help you.

84 K5 Blazer 97 12v, 47re with E-TransControl, Dodge Dana 60 with free spin hubs, Dana 70, B&M Mega shifter

96 F350 SC dually zf5, 4x4, 92 Cummins, THD 5x12's, THD fuel pin, THD HVLP with adjustable fuel pressure mod, WM, h1c 60/60/12cm WG wired
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:41 PM
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A Google search for 24 valve wiring or stand alone wiring should come up with the wiring for the engine.

You can wire in the pcm but it must be from the same truck or same kind of truck. I don't believe (I could be wrong) that you can use a 12v truck pcm in a 24v application.

Here's a website with some wiring info. Talks about different ways to wire up the engine with and without the pcm.
http://www.texstarmckinney.com/diy-2...ing-guide.html

From my understanding the ecm that is best is one from a standard truck. The auto ecm can be made to work by supplying the correct vss signal. And I believe an automatic ecm can be flashed to a standard ecm removing the need for a vss signal.

There isn't a lot of info but some that talk about a skim. Basically an anti theft component of the ecm, pcm, tcm . See link above.

For the most part from what I've read the 24v is pretty easy to wire and run. It needs something like 5 wires hooked up and one relay to run. But there are threads where people have had problems getting the engine to run...

In my truck I plan on not running with the pcm.

Years ago there was talk that you need a pcm to get a programmer to work. A workaround is to use a compbox or quadzilla... they don't require an obd2 port or pcm.

Hope that helps 🙂

*edit*

I don't know forsure if a compbox would work without the pcm... only that it isn't connected to the obd2 port and I assume it would work.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:52 PM
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I just wanted to add that a lot of people stay clear of the vp44 because of its history of problems. Imho most of those problems have been addressed in the newer pumps from the reading I've done. The only thing that can still cause issues is a lack of fuel pressure... that will ruin a vp44. So make sure you have a good fuel setup and invest in a fuel pressure gauge.

I personally like the idea of the 24v mostly because I of its ability to have a programmer... I don't want to drive around with 400+ hp at the wheels all the time lol...
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GoodB0Y View Post
A Google search for 24 valve wiring or stand alone wiring should come up with the wiring for the engine.

You can wire in the pcm but it must be from the same truck or same kind of truck. I don't believe (I could be wrong) that you can use a 12v truck pcm in a 24v application.

Here's a website with some wiring info. Talks about different ways to wire up the engine with and without the pcm.
http://www.texstarmckinney.com/diy-2...ing-guide.html

From my understanding the ecm that is best is one from a standard truck. The auto ecm can be made to work by supplying the correct vss signal. And I believe an automatic ecm can be flashed to a standard ecm removing the need for a vss signal.

There isn't a lot of info but some that talk about a skim. Basically an anti theft component of the ecm, pcm, tcm . See link above.

For the most part from what I've read the 24v is pretty easy to wire and run. It needs something like 5 wires hooked up and one relay to run. But there are threads where people have had problems getting the engine to run...

In my truck I plan on not running with the pcm.

Years ago there was talk that you need a pcm to get a programmer to work. A workaround is to use a compbox or quadzilla... they don't require an obd2 port or pcm.

Hope that helps 🙂
That helps a whole bunch actually.

I knew about the standalone wiring. A bit of background for me is that I just went through a 2 year college program in diesel power technology and have worked on 3 separate 5.9 isb's that were on stands. I wasn't sure if the Dodge ECM would allow it though.

As far as the PCM and ECM goes, the truck with the motor had an nv5600 in it so I should be good there. My main concern was that I wouldn't be able to use a tuner without obd2, however now that I know the quadzilla is a work around that helps greatly. I have access to Cummins software that allows me to read codes off of the Cummins data port.

I'd love to not use the PCM just because that's one more wiring mess that I don't wanna do.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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I just wanted to add that a lot of people stay clear of the vp44 because of its history of problems. Imho most of those problems have been addressed in the newer pumps from the reading I've done. The only thing that can still cause issues is a lack of fuel pressure... that will ruin a vp44. So make sure you have a good fuel setup and invest in a fuel pressure gauge.

I personally like the idea of the 24v mostly because I of its ability to have a programmer... I don't want to drive around with 400+ hp at the wheels all the time lol...
That's why I like the vp44 system as well. A little cheaper than CR, but more tuneable than the ve or p-pump. My end goal set up will be to have a fass fuel pump, then run the vp44 until it dies (pretty sure it's the stock one from factory) and then get an upgraded 44 and throw on a super B (not the big one) with 100hp DAP sticks with a quadzilla, hoping to get a clean 400hp out of it and then set it on valet mode if someone else drives it.😆
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