Changed starter... Lift pump took a crap?? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
98.5-02 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect..NO ADVERTISING .

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Fanatic
 
01maroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 124
Thanks: 35
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Changed starter... Lift pump took a crap??

So this one is sending me for a trip. The starter (duralast unfortunately) started making a little grinding noise on every few startups, so I thought what the heck, I have lifetime replacements let me change it out real quick. Change it out and immediately on first startup no fuel pressure and hit pedal and engine was breaking up and wouldn't rev up. So then I shut down her down. I bumped starter to see if Lift pump would run for 30 and I got nothing. So 7 years 60k on a Raptor Frrp 100? Sure could be time for a new one, so I ordered up another raptor for ease of install and price. I went for a 150 this time. Installed it and went to bump it to start priming and I get nothing from the Lift pump. According to the codes I got and research I did, I went through and checked fuel Pump relay, Cleaned as many grounds as I could find (each side of block, drivers fender behind headlight, Lift pump behind starter, looked for any open wires, still got nothing. Stumped. So troubleshooting for two days here is what I have:

Codes:
P0232
P0215
P1689
P0230
P0236

New Lift pump works (tested with wires straight from Battery)
I get 12v at the plug when bumping starter
Fuel Pump relay is Good


I am pulling my hair out over here.


2001 qcsb 4x4, Revmax Trans, Edge EZ, 2" Level, 20" Monsters,Isspro EV2 FP Gauge, FRRP, BHAF, Timbo apps https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...uild-pics.html
01maroon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 01:31 AM
Automotive Connoisseur
 
seanb02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere on the Farm
Posts: 2,106
Thanks: 1,164
Thanked 1,843 Times in 1,439 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Without doing research on those particular codes, it sounds to me as though the ECM isn't powering up the relay that activates the lift pump. Generally ECM issues are caused by the alternator producing AC noise which ultimately kills the ECM. I tend to think the starter issues are unrelated, just unfortunate timing that two problems manifested themselves at the same time.

2002 6 SPEED QCSB 4x4
- 2005 GMC 2500HD Duramax -
- 2018 Nash 26N TT -
- 1968 Thunderbird 429 Landau -

seanb02 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to seanb02 For This Useful Post:
01maroon (12-10-2019)
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 03:41 AM
Diesel Head

 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yuba City, ca
Posts: 17,937
Thanks: 149
Thanked 1,409 Times in 1,340 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Sean is correct.
Does the wait to start light come on immediately when turning they key to ON. It should come on at least for a second every time, and stay on if below 60 degrees on first start.
If not the ECM is not booting up and powering systems and it needs replacement.

Read code details here.

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/art...and-vp44-r135/

99 2500, Quad cab, 4x4 47RE, BD pressure lock on it, small BD 90/140 chip on the VP 44 connection plug, 17" 3rd gen wheels. 3.55 diffs. Ruenell front bumper and warn winch, Rancho adj shocks. 663k miles.
bigfish95971 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to bigfish95971 For This Useful Post:
01maroon (12-10-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Fanatic
 
01maroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 124
Thanks: 35
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I got a scanner, so tonight I am going to clear codes, check for wait to start light, and attempt Moparman's diagnosis steps. Fingers crossed I come up with something and the lift pump didn't take out my ECM.

2001 qcsb 4x4, Revmax Trans, Edge EZ, 2" Level, 20" Monsters,Isspro EV2 FP Gauge, FRRP, BHAF, Timbo apps https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...uild-pics.html
01maroon is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 03:49 AM
Diesel Head

 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yuba City, ca
Posts: 17,937
Thanks: 149
Thanked 1,409 Times in 1,340 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
A bad lift pump does not take out your ECM, it kills your injection pump(VP44)
An alternator putting out ACv over about .03-.05v is what damages your ECM and takes it out. AC also causes lockup issues on automatic and other electrical issues.
So let me know how testing goes.

99 2500, Quad cab, 4x4 47RE, BD pressure lock on it, small BD 90/140 chip on the VP 44 connection plug, 17" 3rd gen wheels. 3.55 diffs. Ruenell front bumper and warn winch, Rancho adj shocks. 663k miles.
bigfish95971 is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 01:16 PM
Newbie
 
Kaswyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Yes, ECM isn't powering up the relay that activates the lift pump
Kaswyn is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 04:36 PM
Diesel Head

 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Yuba City, ca
Posts: 17,937
Thanks: 149
Thanked 1,409 Times in 1,340 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
AKA---bad ECM unless wiring issue, but usually ecm.

Used is 3-600. usually Car-parts.com for wrecking yards or Craig's list locally. Must be same part number and will only be found an 01 or 02 only. But if same PN it is plug and play.
Parts store "new" or rebuilt are often blanks that need programming and start about 900 dollars. Some are preprogrammed, so be sure switch.

Repairing your si possible but often poorly done by some places. 3-700.

99 2500, Quad cab, 4x4 47RE, BD pressure lock on it, small BD 90/140 chip on the VP 44 connection plug, 17" 3rd gen wheels. 3.55 diffs. Ruenell front bumper and warn winch, Rancho adj shocks. 663k miles.
bigfish95971 is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-13-2019, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Fanatic
 
01maroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 124
Thanks: 35
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
So small update I cleared the codes, But one remained. P0230. I also looked at "wait to start light" and it came on just fine. Going to diagnose further this weekend, by the time I get home from work it's dark and not ideal finding wire colors and diagnosing. Stay tuned.

2001 qcsb 4x4, Revmax Trans, Edge EZ, 2" Level, 20" Monsters,Isspro EV2 FP Gauge, FRRP, BHAF, Timbo apps https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...uild-pics.html
01maroon is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-13-2019, 05:03 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
all that at the same time is odd. Were the batteries disconnected for all of the work?
Wires all put back in the right spot?
The R train is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-13-2019, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Fanatic
 
01maroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 124
Thanks: 35
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Yes. Only things unplugged were the lift pump connection and sensors for the fuel filter housing.

2001 qcsb 4x4, Revmax Trans, Edge EZ, 2" Level, 20" Monsters,Isspro EV2 FP Gauge, FRRP, BHAF, Timbo apps https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...uild-pics.html
01maroon is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-15-2019, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Fanatic
 
01maroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 124
Thanks: 35
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
**Update: It's fixed. I bought a proper deutsch connector to get at the wires a bit easier to test and to build out my relay triggered wire harness in the near future seen here:



So I tested the wires coming from ECM and watched the multimeter through the windshield and it worked perfectly. 12V for about 20 seconds when key bumped. So I then removed the pump and tested it straight to the battery and nothing. It wanted to weld the test wire to the post. Only thing I can think of is it's jammed. So I pull the cover off the bottom and sure enough the gerotor was jammed. I was able to pull the inner and outer rotors out and sure enough a little piece of rubber/plastic crud was jamming the pump. Put it all back together for about the 4th time and she worked just fine. I had the bleed bolt on VP44 loose and forgot to have a wrench ready and got a little fountain of fuel, but all was good. Started up second crank.

So going forward I ordered up a little pre pump filter (that Fass gives you with their pump)


and going to wire in relay harness as to not have to worry about possible ecm failure due to these unreliable pumps.

2001 qcsb 4x4, Revmax Trans, Edge EZ, 2" Level, 20" Monsters,Isspro EV2 FP Gauge, FRRP, BHAF, Timbo apps https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...uild-pics.html
01maroon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome