Transmission and turbo input/suggestions - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
98.5-02 Performance Parts Discussion Discussion of Performance Parts For the 98-02 Trucks No Advertising ...NO ADVERTISING

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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys I'm new to the forum and was hoping for some input on turbos and transmissions. I'm just spit balling numbers to estimate what trans I would need to put in to hold the power I plan on putting in the truck. I just want to keep it tasteful and bring some life into the old girl. It's a daily driver and I do tow 10k lbs every now and again. I have an 02 cclb 24v auto 4x4 with a edge attitude with juice cts2, I believe a fass fuel 175 and a 4inch straight pipe that will be getting swapped over to a 5inch down the road. I'm going to be putting in a vp44 hot rod injection pump with 120hp injectors and .093 connecting tubes that should put me at 355hp in theory. Then a viper phatshaft 63/68/12 or 63/68/14 turbo, I'm not sure if I want a 14mm or a 12mm housing. 14mm allows more air flow but a 12mm spools faster. And I dont know how much horsepower that adds as well so any input on that or any idea what kind of power that would add to the truck would be appreciated. Then a couple other bolt ons like a high ram intake manifold and a cold air intake with filter. Maybe a couple other bolt ons. I know I am gonna most likely have to do arp head studs and a head gasket. I'm also going to reseal the engine and install the killer dowel pin upgrade. All in all I'm gonna have to look up how much horsepower it will be putting out before doing any of that because I will need to put in a trans that can hold all of that. If it comes in around 400hp I'll be fine with an ats stage 1 that's rated at 500hp. But if I'm closer to 450hp or 500hp I'll have to do a stage 2 or 3 trans so any suggestions or spitball numbers would be greatly appreciated. Also another thing is I bought the truck with the programmer in it and i have no idea what numbers each of the 5 levels put out so that will also play a part in the horsepower ratings as well. Thank in advance

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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 07:03 PM
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first...ALWAYS OVERBUILD THE 47RE !

second....AVOID ATS LIKE THE PLAGUE.


find a reputable local builder and go that route.

02 Sport / 47re / 4" MBRP TBE / DAP 75hp sticks/ HX35W / GDP FUEL BOSS / DDRP02 / 3rd gen brakes / 4th gen steering / 2" Thuren / MC ARMS / 5100's /285/75/17
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 09:13 PM
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I went with Goerend for all parts and built it myself...wasn't really that difficult. And they are very good to work with. It was expensive but like Stormin08 said...overbuild the 47re rather than underbuild.

I would go with a 62/65/12 which will support 500hp and spool like stock. And if you ever have plans to go with twins you will be already half way there. Twins are the best end result.

02 2500 4X4, reg cab shorty, 3.55, Smarty/TST, 75 over 62, 150 inj, 5" exh, 12" lift on 20" 34's, Goerend billet triple disc auto, Yukon hub/bearing kit
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormin08 View Post
first...ALWAYS OVERBUILD THE 47RE !

second....AVOID ATS LIKE THE PLAGUE.


find a reputable local builder and go that route.
Agreed with overbuilding it within reason. I dont need to build a race trans, just something with plenty of room to support the mods I will eventually be doing to the truck.

As for avoiding ats what's your reasoning behind that? I cant say I've heard any issues with them before and their warranty is the best one out there and unheard of. I was considering just building a trans, I havent been in a trans in a while but I could do it myself. I just dont really have the time or patience to do so. As for local builders I dont really know any in the Philadelphia area either.
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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I went with Goerend for all parts and built it myself...wasn't really that difficult. And they are very good to work with. It was expensive but like Stormin08 said...overbuild the 47re rather than underbuild.

I would go with a 62/65/12 which will support 500hp and spool like stock. And if you ever have plans to go with twins you will be already half way there. Twins are the best end result.
Is Goerand a local shop to you? Or a website for parts?

As for the turbo suggestion thats the other option recommended by industrial injection for their set up that I'll be doing so it's funny you suggested that. Although I dont plan on going with twin turbos I do like the idea of having that possibility.

I just need a rough estimate on horsepower for that setup so I know what trans to put in or how built I will need it to be. Regardless I will overbuilding it
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 10:11 PM
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You have a lot of wasted money in your plan.
The Hotrod VP is an absolute waste of money. It wonít do much of anything for you and isnít known to be very reliable.
Just run a ďStandard OutputĒ (not HO) VP44. It flows more fuel, the so-called HO just has bumped-up timing, which a tuner can do anyway.
ATS is great at marketing but donít fall for it. Read up on FirePunk and Suncoast. PLENTY of people tell horror stories about ATS.

The intake is a waste of money too, you wonít see a measurable gain.
Diesels hotrod differently than gas engines, which do respond well to aftermarket intakes.

Do a full-tilt transmission. It wonít make it any different to drive daily and you might as well do it while youíre at it and not break it later.
You could skip the billet intermediate and output shafts. You arenít likely to break those unless you really beat it to death, and many people skip the billet output intentionally so if you do abuse it to the point of breakage that can be the weak link, because itís relatively easy to replace and wonít grenade the trans.
But donít cheap out on the rest of it.

'99 QC 4x4 Dually.
In the near future Iím ripping out all the electronic junk and P-pumping it.
Built trans, Gear Vendors overdrive, Kelderman Air Ride
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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 12:51 AM
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I would check out the dyno thread.

Your build sounds like a page from a diesel mag to much $$$ not as much results.

Skip the hot rod pump waste of money.
Skip the 5" unless you want deeper sound.
7 x .010 injectors
62 with a 12 cm housing
Studs
Trans over built. Dynamic is a good choice so is firepunk.
Throw a quadzilla add if you want control over your fueling and timing.


That's a proven 500 hp setup.
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstermaker View Post
You have a lot of wasted money in your plan.
The Hotrod VP is an absolute waste of money. It won’t do much of anything for you and isn’t known to be very reliable.
Just run a “Standard Output” (not HO) VP44. It flows more fuel, the so-called HO just has bumped-up timing, which a tuner can do anyway.
ATS is great at marketing but don’t fall for it. Read up on FirePunk and Suncoast. PLENTY of people tell horror stories about ATS.

The intake is a waste of money too, you won’t see a measurable gain.
Diesels hotrod differently than gas engines, which do respond well to aftermarket intakes.

Do a full-tilt transmission. It won’t make it any different to drive daily and you might as well do it while you’re at it and not break it later.
You could skip the billet intermediate and output shafts. You aren’t likely to break those unless you really beat it to death, and many people skip the billet output intentionally so if you do abuse it to the point of breakage that can be the weak link, because it’s relatively easy to replace and won’t grenade the trans.
But don’t cheap out on the rest of it.
The hot rod pump you think is a waste? Interesting, alright I just thought it was a necessary upgrade to support the injectors. You'll have to forgive me if I ask a ton of questions about modifying and upgrades. I'm just getting into diesel modifications as I currently work at a diesel shop but i do not work with any high performance applications. The truck currently has a standard output vp44 with a fass fuel system I forgot to mention that earlier.

And great info on ats. I didnt know they had a bad reputation. Firepunk was my original choice until I saw the warranty ats offers.

As for cold air intake and high ram manifold that's good to know. Kind of figured as much but wasnt sure. Like I said they're really just bolt ons.

As for a full-tilt trans what are you referring to? And very good info on the internals. I would never have thought to leave the output shaft alone so that would be the weakest link just in case something were to happen. Thanks for you input
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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 01:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me78569 View Post
I would check out the dyno thread.

Your build sounds like a page from a diesel mag to much $$$ not as much results.

Skip the hot rod pump waste of money.
Skip the 5" unless you want deeper sound.
7 x .010 injectors
62 with a 12 cm housing
Studs
Trans over built. Dynamic is a good choice so is firepunk.
Throw a quadzilla add if you want control over your fueling and timing.


That's a proven 500 hp setup.
Great idea about checking the dyno thread. After the comments about the hot rod vp44 I will most likely skip it.

The exhaust I would like it to be deeper with the 5" but the main reason to replace it is there must have been a casting defect in the current 4" because I had to put a band clamp over a hole that blew out the side under the cab and no it did not rot out.

Who makes those injectors you're referring to? Also does it matter what nozzles?

Everything else I agree with and appreciate the input. But what is the quadzilla add you're referring to? I cant say I've heard of that
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quadzilla V2 for tuning....best option for the end user.
INFINITE PERFORMANCE, DFI, DAP for injectors. infinite is top notch, dfi / dap are very reputable with dap being very budget friendly....but as always, at a cost.

not saying anything bad about dap, as i have 75k miles on set of their aftermarket body injectors with zero issues.

research ATS, they are way over advertised and regullarly dont deliver. always the end users fault and their reason to dump warranty claims.

goerend was a top notch builder, now a great parts supplier to you or your reputable builder.

at the end of the day, a built 47 with billet input, billet triple disc tc and the necessary hard parts...is almost identical of trans from 400hp to 800hp, sans the VB choice.

WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED ? let us help you get in touch with the right people.

02 Sport / 47re / 4" MBRP TBE / DAP 75hp sticks/ HX35W / GDP FUEL BOSS / DDRP02 / 3rd gen brakes / 4th gen steering / 2" Thuren / MC ARMS / 5100's /285/75/17
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormin08 View Post
Quadzilla V2 for tuning....best option for the end user.
INFINITE PERFORMANCE, DFI, DAP for injectors. infinite is top notch, dfi / dap are very reputable with dap being very budget friendly....but as always, at a cost.

not saying anything bad about dap, as i have 75k miles on set of their aftermarket body injectors with zero issues.

research ATS, they are way over advertised and regullarly dont deliver. always the end users fault and their reason to dump warranty claims.

goerend was a top notch builder, now a great parts supplier to you or your reputable builder.

at the end of the day, a built 47 with billet input, billet triple disc tc and the necessary hard parts...is almost identical of trans from 400hp to 800hp, sans the VB choice.

WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED ? let us help you get in touch with the right people.
I'll have to look into the quadzilla for sure. I currently have the edge programmer as I said. Would that whole system have to be removed for the quadzilla or would they be compatible in a way?

And I'll definitely look into those injectors. I was just going to put in industrial injection honed race 120hp injectors along with the .093 connecting tubes. Nothing crazy just wanted a little more performance.

As for ats I'm beginning to realize that's the general consensus. And I found goerand's website which is perfect for building your own trans. The only issue being with rebuilding it myself is that I cant afford to have the truck down that long to do it. But with rebuilding it myself or having it rebuilt with the parts supplied do you think it would still be cheaper than just replacing it with a firepunk street/track performance trans or their stage 1 47re?

I'm located in the suburbs of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I would definitely like to get in touch with the right people so I can figure out what parts I would need to over build the trans. I was also considering picking up a 47re off of Facebook marketplace or craigslist to rebuild that in preparation of my current 47re letting go as it already has a flare up from 3-4
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 12:40 PM
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No less than 7 x .010 injectors. Stop referring to them in hp size. hole size and count is the only was to compare. DAP or DFI if you are on a budget, infinite if you want the best. 7 x .010's are the standard for a vp truck, less than that is a waste of money and time. 7 x .010's will put you above 500 hp worth of fuel without having to run wiretap crazy on tuning. You want more mechanical fuel and less electrical fuel.

.093 tubes again waste of money and serve no purpose. Stock connector tubes will support more power than the SO pump can do.

The quadzilla is a replacement for your edge. they both do the same thing, but the quadzilla offers WAY more tunablity and control. the quadzilla can make a 500 hp vp truck pass emissions while putting down 500 hp, the edge cannot.


your goals are not uncommon the build list is

tuner
62mm turbo 12cm housing
7 x .010 injectors
built trans
studs

2018 3500 CCLB G56
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