Sudden 47rh failure... will not engage in any gear - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Question Sudden 47rh failure... will not engage in any gear

First of all, I'm a long time lurker but first time poster. This forum is a great resource but after a couple hours searching I cannot find an answer to my problem. Maybe I'm not using the right search terms, but in any case...

The vehicle:
1995 Ram 3500, 2wd, Auto which is actually been converted to a motorhome, weighing about 12,000lbs. It has 163,xxx miles on it.

The previous owner had the transmission professionally rebuilt (according to the records, it had an AMK rebuild assembly set + swap in a rebuilt torque converter) in 2006 with 14x,xxx miles on it. The previous owner also had a rambrake, k&n filter and a different fuel plate (I don't know what number) professionally installed.

The problem:

Yesterday while on the highway at 65mph in cruise control on relatively level ground, there was a sudden dull thump/bang and the engine began to rev freely up to 3k (ie no more load on the engine). I got on the brakes and put it in neutral and then coasted into a rest area.

Once stopped the truck would not move itself in D,2,1 nor R. The engine did not deviate at all from its idle revs no matter what gear I selected. I thought at first it was stuck in neutral and the gear selector mechanism had failed. However the mechanical linkage all seemed to be working, plus I could push/roll the truck backwards when in R, N, D, 2, or 1 but not in P (ie Park seems to be working as does the selector mechanism).

I checked the fluid level/temp/color shortly after stopping (via the dipstick) and it was ok/warm(but not hot)/red. There are no apparent leaks from the trans. I let the truck cool down for 30min but there was no change when I tried to drive it again. This was the extent of my roadside diagnosis and subsequently had to get towed to a shop.

There was no indication of an impending problem. I have only had this truck a few weeks now and have put about 2000 miles on it. The only "issue" I found with it was a slight vibration/chatter in 3rd gear at about 2000 (+/- 100) rpm under load. It had this issue since I bought it. The elderly previous owner said he never noticed it until I pointed it out to him. I would avoid this vibration/chatter by flicking the o/d override on and off quickly so it would kick down a gear. I had done this a few times prior (ie within 40 miles) to the sudden failure.

I have a few days before the shop can look at it so I am trying to diagnose it myself in the meantime. My hope is that it is something simple that can be fixed without dropping the trans. My fear is that the input shaft is stripped/snapped (although, would Park work if this was the case?).

Sorry for the long read, but I wanted to be thorough.

Any thoughts on what it could be before I go to the shop and drain the trans oil? In my searching I have found others that had sort of a similar problem, but they still had reverse. I do not have reverse.

Thanks in advance.

Tony



Tag words: 47rh, automatic, transmission, tranny, auto, failure, fail, sudden, no gears, no reverse

Towona is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 08:07 PM
Diesel Head
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 2,230
Thanks: 9
Thanked 301 Times in 268 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
My first guess would be an input shaft. It could be the flywheel, but that would most likely make some noise with the engine running. Park would work fine with a broken input shaft as the parking cogs engage the output shaft stopping it from turning when the engine is running and input shaft turning.

'96 Dodge 3500,KDP killed, boost-pyro-trans temp, not stock anymore
'01 Dodge 2500 4X4, EC, LB, 6 speed, FP-pyro-boost,
'97 Chevrolet Suburban, K1500, 4.10 gears
RPegram is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-22-2011, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Thanks for your input.

Just to clarify... there is absolutely no grinding or any other noise when any of the gears are selected.
Towona is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 12:07 AM
Diesel Freak
 
automotiveadam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 557
Thanks: 30
Thanked 40 Times in 33 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I think this might be a pcm issue. The linkage is mechanical, and the sifts themselves are hydraulic, but going into gear could have some electrical affiliation, I am not sure. The reason for this is because I had a short in fuse #9 which goes to multiple engine components including the pcm. When I had a mechanical shutoff and the fuse was blown, the engine would run with no pcm. I noticed my tach wasn't working and I couldn't switch gears(same as you describe). Also I think the pcm controls OD lockup, so I might be on to something.
Please forgive me if i'm wrong, but I hope this might give someone, who actually knows what there talking about, an idea

Adam-
1996 dodge ram 2500 CCLB, 4x4, laramie, automatic
4'' exhaust, KDP Tabbed, silencer ring MIA, fuel heater delete, 4.10s
automotiveadam is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I checked fuse #9 and it was not blown.

Also, the tach is working properly.
Towona is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 07:47 PM
Diesel Head
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 1,659
Thanks: 9
Thanked 161 Times in 133 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
It is not electrical, it is a mechanical issue. You've broken a hard part inside the transmission, quite possibly the input shaft. It will have to be removed and torn down.

'98 12v 2wd dually, SB DD, Detroit locker, 64/65/13 htb2, CPP 7x10's, 3kgsk, bhaf, 19*, 50 lbs boost
v8440 is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I'm pretty darn sure it is the input shaft...ie that it has sheared clean off.

Can anyone recommend where to get a replacement billet shaft?
Towona is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 05:29 PM
Diesel Head
 
country_hick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 11,294
Thanks: 7
Thanked 2,819 Times in 2,117 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Below is a input shaft that Precision Industries now offers "our New 1 piece 300M Billet Input Shaft with Hub (no modifications needed). We are the only company that offers a such a High Quality Cryogenically Treated Shaft like this. It fits the 518/618 transmission and comes with a 6 month Warranty against workmanship and defects." It is also supposed to fit the 47 transmissions.

Input Shaft/Hub Part No. 618IS


Precision Industries

It should be $500 or less. Another site had it listed for $500 with additional markup. I can not say from experience anything except that it is the least expensive billet input shaft I have yet found.

Use the contact link on that site and ask them for more information.

Also, I have read that when the input shaft breaks it often ruins the torque converter. If so look here for a rebuilt single or triple billet torque converter at a great price.

http://www.dieselperformanceconverters.com/page6.html

At $300 for a single billet and $800 for a triple you will work hard to find a better price.

1997 3500 club cab 3.54 gears towing & camper pkg. Still stock with a built transmission at 120k. 4" exhaust, 4kgsk, and exhaust brake waiting for installation. 37337 upgrade. Still need ideas for improvements for hauling 15k fifth wheel.

Last edited by country_hick; 10-25-2011 at 05:33 PM.
country_hick is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 09:02 PM
Diesel Head
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 16,224
Thanks: 27
Thanked 2,314 Times in 1,609 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Goerend Transmission Incorporated - St. Lucas, Iowa is a favorite source of many folks here for tranny parts.
He'll probably expertly diagnose the problem for you too.
Broken input shafts usually make a loud, obvious snap when they break.

Might sound silly but have you checked the fluid level, engine warmed up idling in N?
A broken cooling line that results in total loss of fluid gives the same symptoms you describe except there's usually an oily mess too.

Bill
'95 2500 4wd auto
'95 3500 5 speed heavy hauler
Stock for one day
illflem is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Just to follow up on this...

It turned out that it was indeed the input shaft that broke (the part that goes inside the torque converter).
Towona is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Diesel Freak
 
12vbigkermit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft.Leonard wood, MO
Posts: 898
Thanks: 8
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
allot of billet input shafts are actually made by sonax. which is then distributed.

98 2500 4x4 motor at JEFF GARMONS .20 over 06 custom cam s364 over s475r
Stainless Diesel
12vbigkermit is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome