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94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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post #37 of 92 (permalink) Old 06-27-2010, 06:40 PM
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Turbo drive pressure will not blow open the valve springs because the boost pressure is acting on the other side of the valve to counter that.
When you use an exhaust brake you don't have any boost pressure so the valves can blow open.

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post #38 of 92 (permalink) Old 06-30-2010, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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update coming soon here everyone, in the middle of moving. Thanks for all of the info and feedback...

Newbie Questions? FAQ's? Read this first please:
***Beginners Thread***
1997 2500 SCLB NV4500 4x4 - 5x.012 VCO's, No Plate, Modded and Tuned AFC, 4K GSK/60# VS, 2095 Plug, 16 Timing, 4" TBE, K&N Intake, Isspro EV Gauges, South Bend SDD3250, BFG All-Terrains, Bilstein 5100's, KDP Tabbed, Steering Box Stabilizer, 40 Gal. Veggie Oil System, B100 & WVO burner!
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post #39 of 92 (permalink) Old 06-30-2010, 01:36 PM
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Hope the move goes well Nick. Wish I lived closer, I'd give you a hand and another truck.

It's weird that I can't find any information when searching for the pound-rating of the stock vs HD exhaust valve springs.

The HD valve springs are 60# *over stock*, but it's hard to find the actual spring rates of each one. Then there are the 110# (over stock) springs that are mostly for 24valvers, but I guess some pullers use them on 12 valves. ??

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to check if you have both laying around. I don't.

I still have stock valve springs. That should be next on my list... then I can do a valve adjustment too, which I'm sure has never been done to my truck.

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post #40 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 02:11 AM Thread Starter
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Hope the move goes well Nick. Wish I lived closer, I'd give you a hand and another truck.
Hah, thanks man. Luckily the hard part is done, I used my dad's flatbed for the big stuff. Now it's all the little stuff...

Turbo section added, feedback welcome...

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***Beginners Thread***
1997 2500 SCLB NV4500 4x4 - 5x.012 VCO's, No Plate, Modded and Tuned AFC, 4K GSK/60# VS, 2095 Plug, 16 Timing, 4" TBE, K&N Intake, Isspro EV Gauges, South Bend SDD3250, BFG All-Terrains, Bilstein 5100's, KDP Tabbed, Steering Box Stabilizer, 40 Gal. Veggie Oil System, B100 & WVO burner!
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post #41 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 11:13 AM
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Hope the move goes well Nick. Wish I lived closer, I'd give you a hand and another truck.

It's weird that I can't find any information when searching for the pound-rating of the stock vs HD exhaust valve springs.

The HD valve springs are 60# *over stock*, but it's hard to find the actual spring rates of each one. Then there are the 110# (over stock) springs that are mostly for 24valvers, but I guess some pullers use them on 12 valves. ??

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to check if you have both laying around. I don't.

I still have stock valve springs. That should be next on my list... then I can do a valve adjustment too, which I'm sure has never been done to my truck.
you have a 4k spring with no valve springs?? you are lucky not to mess up alot!

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post #42 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 11:40 AM
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you have a 4k spring with no valve springs?? you are lucky not to mess up alot!
Oh yeah? Well, why is that then? Tell me what I'm gonna mess up and how it'll all happen.
Do you think a 4k GSK just revs your truck up to 4000RPM all by itself?

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post #43 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 12:37 PM
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you have a 4k spring with no valve springs?? you are lucky not to mess up alot!
the stock gsk starts defueling the motor at 2200rpms whether you have the plate removed or not. the 4k spring allows you to run more fuel in the higher rpm range so the truck wont fall on its face. it wont hurt nothing by running a 4k. hell the motor wont turn 4k even with the spring in unless you have some pump mods done cause i dont think the turbo nor the stock p-pump will fuel it that high. you can prob get 32-3400 out of it.

12veg we need a timing section. i am trying to learn about that. if the timing is advance, that will cause better response and lower egts correct? what is stock timing usually at? where is a good spot to put the timing if you are only running a stock turbo and no plate? thanks again man, keep up the great work

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post #44 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 02:10 PM
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the stock gsk starts defueling the motor at 2200rpms whether you have the plate removed or not. the 4k spring allows you to run more fuel in the higher rpm range so the truck wont fall on its face. it wont hurt nothing by running a 4k. hell the motor wont turn 4k even with the spring in unless you have some pump mods done cause i dont think the turbo nor the stock p-pump will fuel it that high. you can prob get 32-3400 out of it.
Well, I can get the revs as high as I want, (I once saw it as high as 3500RPM when my mechanic drove it, but I'd never go over 3200). It was smooth as silk at 3500, but the noisy part was me yelling "SHIFT YOU A$$HOLE!"

What Doidge was saying is that you can do a 3k GSK if you don't plan on valve springs, but I'd never do a 3k - it's a waste of time. It starts defueling earlier than 3k and with advanced timing (mine's at 17) and injectors, a 12-valve is good til 3200 at least. I need those last 400RPMs.

I just know that I won't push the revs to the point where I will risk exhaust valve float. You can free-rev it to 4k all day long and get no valve float, since it's the boost + high revs that cause the exh valves to hang open.

I plan on doing valve springs ASAP, but it's not risky at all in the meantime.
My point (in response to Doidge's warning) was that I doubt he knows what all is at risk if he's issuing warnings not to install a 4k kit w/o valve springs or your engine will blow up.

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12veg we need a timing section. i am trying to learn about that. if the timing is advance, that will cause better response and lower egts correct? what is stock timing usually at? where is a good spot to put the timing if you are only running a stock turbo and no plate? thanks again man, keep up the great work
The stock timing varies, from around 11.5-12.5 depending on year. The earlier 94/95 160/175HP engines were timed lower and the later ones higher.
Mine was at 12 or 12.5.. can't remember - don't care.

If you advance the timing, it shifts the powerband UP in RPM's. Going from stock timing to 17, I lost a LOT of low-end power (below 1700RPM) and gained a LOT of upper end power (2500-3200RPM). My spool suffered from loss of low-end.. but hopefully the 024's that are in the mail from Mathews8PT will help (he's now running my old 191's - we just traded).

But I didn't notice any change in EGT's. My low-end smoke was more after timing. Could've been a tuning issue, which I've resolved as good as possible with the stock DV's. When I get the 024's in, I'm sure I'll have to tune the AFC s'more to get it dialed.

You need to match the fueling to your turbo. And you need to advance your timing based on what injectors you have and what you're planning to do with the truck.

With stock injectors, 15 is probably a good number for DD'ing and you're not going to gain anything by putting it past that with stock injectors.
With my 5x12's, 17-18 is good. Even 19-20 would be good, but I'm on the stock head bolts/gasket.

If you have studs and 5x16's and you're looking to make like 600-700HP, you may be better off going with 20 or higher timing.

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post #45 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 02:52 PM
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thanks man. i am stock injectors and tubro with no plate. i plan on atleast going to an s300. i would like to be in the 450-500hp range. i am trying to find out what i need to get there. i know i will be doing valve springs, head studs, oring head, new turbo. do you think i will need new injectors? like 90hp or 5x12's i think?

what is the delivery valve? im sorry i am still pretty new to all this.

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post #46 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 04:07 PM
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thanks man. i am stock injectors and tubro with no plate. i plan on atleast going to an s300. i would like to be in the 450-500hp range. i am trying to find out what i need to get there. i know i will be doing valve springs, head studs, oring head, new turbo. do you think i will need new injectors? like 90hp or 5x12's i think?

what is the delivery valve? im sorry i am still pretty new to all this.
Depending on which S300 (there are lots of sizes) you choose, plus 5x12's (yes 90HP) you should have no problem hitting 450HP.

500HP on a 62mm will take some extra effort, like delivery valves and maxing the pump's fuel rack travel (by modding AFC and installing a 2095 rack plug).

The delivery valves do what the name suggests. Google P7100 DV photos. They deliver fuel (out the top of the injection pump) to the injectors. They are lifted (opened) by the plungers, which sit inside a barrel (like the DV sits in a cylindrical seat) and the plungers are lifted by the pump cam.

But 500HP is easy to hit with 5x14's (140HP) and a 64mm turbo. You should be closer to 550HP with that kind of combo.

I would say you'd be fine with just studs and no o-rings. Lots of people think they need them when they don't. I guess if you think you'll be pushing over 600HP someday soon, then maybe it's worth it.

I hear it's not that expensive to get the head Cn'C'd (like $200-300) but I just don't think it's necessary unless you're going big compounds. Studs & a quality HG (maybe thicker than stock) should hold up to a huge single or small-mid compounds.

I even think just doing studs and leaving the head/gasket alone is what I would do.

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post #47 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 04:32 PM
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well this is a dd and it sees quite a bit of idle time, thats the reason why i want to stay in 450-500 range. makes it super efficient and really reliable, but yet has plenty of power for towing. i will be doing alot of towing also if that makes a diff in what size turbo. i know twins are really good for power/towing combo cause your small turbo will spool super fast and get your moving then the bigger 2nd turbo comes into effect. if i run a big single, i need one that i can get lit up by like 1600rpms tops. i like to get to turbo spooling fast so i dont have to be so high in the rpms to make gobs of tq. thanks for all the help so far algae

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post #48 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 07:08 PM
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[QUOTE=Algae Eater;3123419]Well, I can get the revs as high as I want, (I once saw it as high as 3500RPM when my mechanic drove it, but I'd never go over 3200). It was smooth as silk at 3500, but the noisy part was me yelling "SHIFT YOU A$$HOLE!"

What Doidge was saying is that you can do a 3k GSK if you don't plan on valve springs, but I'd never do a 3k - it's a waste of time. It starts defueling earlier than 3k and with advanced timing (mine's at 17) and injectors, a 12-valve is good til 3200 at least. I need those last 400RPMs.

I just know that I won't push the revs to the point where I will risk exhaust valve float. You can free-rev it to 4k all day long and get no valve float, since it's the boost + high revs that cause the exh valves to hang open.

I plan on doing valve springs ASAP, but it's not risky at all in the meantime.
My point (in response to Doidge's warning) was that I doubt he knows what all is at risk if he's issuing warnings not to install a 4k kit w/o valve springs or your engine will blow up.

i know exactly what will happen if you dont do valve springs. usually piston to valve contact it pretty serious. that just my .02 but i was only warning you because not everyone knows that and or understandes it. i didnt know you only reved up to 3200

97 QCLB nv4500,s469,5x18s,024s,4ks.
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