Vibration in 5th - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Vibration in 5th

Iíve been trying to figure this out since installing my lift. 12v and nv4500 with nv271 in a ford van.

Itís gotta be driveline angles but just wondering if anyone has experienced similar vibrations. It starts around 55 when I shift into 5th. Smooths a bit when I get to 70 but still there. Not too present in 4th but I donít really push it up to 60 then.

Vibration also seems to settle when I left off the pedal.

I installed some shims but maybe Iím still a couple degrees too low...

Everything is new. Hubs, diff, u joints, brakes.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.


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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 03:13 PM
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Wheel/tire balance maybe? Did it only start when you lifted it? Not sure what the driveline looks like on that. Is it a one piece or two piece shaft?

Also, you got a build thread anywhere? That 4wd van setup looks pretty awesome.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 03:15 PM
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My only thought is that a 12 valve manual shift, 4x4 van is cool as $hit and I want one.

One a more serious note, try getting a go-pro style camera and mounting it under the truck and taking it for a drive. Assuming your drive line angles are within the unacceptable range of the joints you're using, you might be looking at a drive shaft imbalance issue (perhaps being exaggerated by the higher angles).
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 03:24 PM
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I would start off by measuring your driveline angles and go from there.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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I donít really have a thread anywhere bc I never sit down to go back over it all. I know I should but by the time I finish a task Iím fíing over it and wishing I was hanging with my gf or friends haha. This is my first project this size and itís taken me so much time to research and do everything right. (Except this vibration of course)

Wheels and tires have been rotated and balanace 3 times now.

Driveline is CV behind the t case which is a Ford 271 with dodge input shaft.

I put a 2005 Ford 10.5 in the back when I did the lift and didnít know the level of importance of angles at the time so I just used a pipe to get it close before having the perches welded on.

After getting the shaft rebalanced I then learned the pinion angle needs to be ideally about 1.5* lower than the driveshaft angle so I measured and realized the pinion was actually too high. I had some shims made to bring it down.

Iíll go measure again tonight to confirm where it is now. Iím measuring on the pinion flange and under the driveshaft.

Assuming itís not tranny related Iím guessing either I need to reshim or maybe driving with it not quite right got the shaft wonky and I need to rebalance it again now that I have the angle correct.

Itís just frustrating dealing with this as my valair clutch is starting to slip again due to what I assume is leaky rear main seal or trans input seal. Both things Iíve done many times before and felt confident about.

Ugh I just want this thing to be done so I can get a winch on it and go play in Utah already.

Hereís a pic of the van with my boat that has a 4bt I rebuilt too!






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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonm View Post
My only thought is that a 12 valve manual shift, 4x4 van is cool as $hit and I want one.



One a more serious note, try getting a go-pro style camera and mounting it under the truck and taking it for a drive. Assuming your drive line angles are within the unacceptable range of the joints you're using, you might be looking at a drive shaft imbalance issue (perhaps being exaggerated by the higher angles).

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Should I just aim it at the driveshaft and it would be obvious?


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justgosurfin View Post
Should I just aim it at the driveshaft and it would be obvious?


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You'll likely have to make a couple goes at it. I'd set it up to aim the camera at the rear u-joint (where the drive shaft connects to the rear end) first as high torque motors (like 12 valve cummins) tend to cause a little axle wrap on leaf spring vehicles (especially if lifted with blocks). If that isn't the issue the re-aim the camera at the carrier bearing (if you have one), then the transfer case rear output joint and see what's going on.
Go-Pro cameras and their knockoffs are pretty cheap now. I've used one to find a front end clunk in a friends truck before, we just kept aiming the camera at the various joints (4X4 IFS Chevy truck, lots of joints in them things) until we found the one that was causing the clunk (strangely enough the bolt hole in the frame mount for the lower control arm had worn into an elliptical shape somehow causing the control arm to move around with a clunk , all the ball joints where still good on that truck).
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97 Extended cab 4x4, NV4500, gauges, valair single disc clutch, 4k gov springs, +60 lb valve springs, tool steel retainers & locks, homemade #10 plate, medium tension AFC spring & flat washers, 5x13 sac injectors, 055 DVs, stock turbo and manifold for now. Lifted on 37" tires and 4:10 gears.

Last edited by Antonm; 02-20-2020 at 07:31 PM.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonm View Post
You'll likely have to make a couple goes at it. I'd set it up to aim the camera at the rear u-joint (where the drive shaft connects to the rear end) first as high torque motors (like 12 valve cummins) tend to cause a little axle wrap on leaf spring vehicles (especially if lifted with blocks). If that isn't the issue the re-aim the camera at the carrier bearing (if you have one), then the transfer case rear output joint and see what's going on.
Go-Pro cameras and their knockoffs are pretty cheap now. I've used one to find a front end clunk in a friends truck before, we just kept aiming the camera at the various joints (4X4 IFS Chevy truck, lots of joints in them things) until we found the one that was causing the clunk (strangely enough the bolt hole in the frame mount for the lower control arm had worn into an elliptical shape somehow causing the control arm to move around with a clunk , all the ball joints where still good on that truck).
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Sweet thanks for the pointers! Iíve got a go pro so Iíll try to do that in the next couple days. The lift is all springs + the 7* shims I got to bring the pinion angle down a little. But yea maybe thereís more wrap going on then Iím accounting for or maybe o even shimmed it down too far. Iím about to go for a ride and then Iíll measure angles again and report back.

Thanks again everyone.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyo George View Post
I would start off by measuring your driveline angles and go from there.


Hereís some photos of measurements I just took. The first four photos are looking in from the driver side and the last two photos are looking in from the passenger side

Iím going to measure a few more times since the flange bolts made it difficult to find a good flat face to place the angle finder.

GoPro tomorrow...

Also to clarify there is not a carrier bearing in this setup.





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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 05:00 AM
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Could you clarify on exactly which parts of the driveline each of these pics are? Trying to do the math, and i think I've got a good guess on each one, but I'm not all that familiar with the underside of a Ford van...

In general the angle of the shaft itself is irrelevant, what matters is the angle of the inputs and outputs and how they're related to each other.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimduchek View Post
Could you clarify on exactly which parts of the driveline each of these pics are? Trying to do the math, and i think I've got a good guess on each one, but I'm not all that familiar with the underside of a Ford van...

In general the angle of the shaft itself is irrelevant, what matters is the angle of the inputs and outputs and how they're related to each other.

The pics are looking in from the side at the bottom end of the.

It has a double carden joint at the t case output flange. With those youíre supposed to have the pinion angle be a degree or two under the shaft angle to account for axle wrap.

TONS of great information on driveline angles from Roger here: https://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/Shims.shtml


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-04-2020, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Trying to get a video uploaded to YouTube from my GoPro but having some sort of issue halfway through loading.

Anyways, itís hard to see the shaft vibrating but itís pretty clear I have a decent amount of axle wrap. Does that not matter a whole lot until up to highway speeds? Thatís the only time I feel it


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