5x12 injectors in otherwise stock engine - bad idea? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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5x12 injectors in otherwise stock engine - bad idea?

my truck is bone stock, 95 manual. 330k. I'm really fairly happy with how it is. I wouldn't mind a bit more power, but don't want the added maintenance it would cost me, so I haven't made any upgrades. but I'm pretty sure the injectors are wearing out. cold weather starts and idle have both slowly but noticeably deteriorated in the last 20k or so. I'm hunting for new injectors and there's a guy local here selling a brand new set of 5x12s for a much better ask than I could get stock ones. I've done quite a bit of reading but can't seem to find an answer to the question: what happens if I put the bigger injectors in without any other mods? am I better off to pony up for a new set of stock, or 215 injectors, than mess around trying to save some $ by putting in something that isn't what I really need?


95 SCLB 4X4. NV4500.... gauges. DT tracbar. engine stock for now
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 03:55 AM
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Thad, have you done anything further to diagnose the truck other than noticing the issues above? Those symptoms could be caused by more than one thing other than being *pretty sure* the injectors are wearing out.
@GAmes could probably tell you what to expect as far as life expectancy, because AFAIK he puts some serious serious miles on his stuff

2002 ram 2500 quad cab shortbed ST. Red, 4x4, nv4500 swap 24v, 66mm silver bullet, 100hp injectors , fass titanium 150, 4" exhaust, guages. 190k miles.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 08:56 AM
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These trucks should have came with 5x.012 from the factory. You wont hurt anything and Im sure they are getting tired. I did some work on a guys truck a few years ago and he still had stock everything at 1.3 million miles. I put 5x.012's in, efi live, gsk and turned up the pump. He loved the way it ran

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 11:01 AM
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Stock "215hp" injectors add about 40-60hp depending on the fuel plate position and the injection pump.

Daily driver/ workhorse: 1994 2500SLT 4x4 Auto. Hewitt EGT, Boost, Trans gauges, Under hood Mech FP gauge, Trident fuel lines, Tork Tek OFV, Mag-Hytec DD Transmission Pan, Ford manual hub conversion, Diamond eye 4" turbo back, 37337 Upgrade. 260K

98 2500slt 4x4 ECLB moldy G56, south bend clutch 3rd gen trac bar , boxed control arms, billet tappet cover w/ dual breathers trident fuel lines, Tork Tek OFV, 4' stainless side dump with muffler 240k
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 12:57 PM
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I thought the 94-96 5 speeds got 5x10s and the 97/98 got 5x11s? I didn't think any 2nd gen dodge came with 5x12s stock. It's been awhile since I looked into it. 5x12s are fine on a stock engine.

'96 2500 ECLB, 117K, Auto, 4x4, 3.54LSD, 285/75/16 nitto terra grapplers. stock..for now
'95 2500 RCLB, 178K, 4x4 , NV4500, 4.10LSD, 4" TBE, BHAF, pyro gauge, messed with afc, 3rd gen alloys, 315/70/17 nitto trail grapplers..
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedfrak78 View Post
5x12s are fine on a stock engine.
That’s what I wanted to hear. Thanks!

95 SCLB 4X4. NV4500.... gauges. DT tracbar. engine stock for now
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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@Killjoy

I have excellent compression, no blow by, valves set, cleaned/replaced filters and screens. Any other suggestions what might be causing an intermittent slight stumble at hot idle, and more misfiring and white smoke on cold starts? Otherwise it runs like it always has.

Everything I’ve read points to injector wear, seems to me that development of uneven pop pressures is a common mode of wear (and cause of these symptoms) for injectors with miles like mine.

I’d just pull them out and get them checked but all the diesel shops around here are slammed and I can’t afford to have my truck down for a week. Better to just put new ones in and find out.

95 SCLB 4X4. NV4500.... gauges. DT tracbar. engine stock for now
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedfrak78 View Post
I thought the 94-96 5 speeds got 5x10s and the 97/98 got 5x11s? I didn't think any 2nd gen dodge came with 5x12s stock.
160hp engines have 5x9s.
175hp engines have 5x9.5s.
180hp engines have 5x10s.
215hp engines have 5x10.5s.

The closest thing to stock 5x12s are the infamous 370hp marine injectors.

5x12 injectors with a 145-degree spray pattern are fine on a stock engine. You may need to limit rack travel to keep the EGTs in check but it's not normally an issue.

'95 2500 ECLB 4x4, 334k and paused due to epic transformation in progress.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy View Post
Thad, have you done anything further to diagnose the truck other than noticing the issues above? Those symptoms could be caused by more than one thing other than being *pretty sure* the injectors are wearing out.
@GAmes could probably tell you what to expect as far as life expectancy, because AFAIK he puts some serious serious miles on his stuff

When you're putting GAmes-level miles on a truck, they will wear out due to nozzle erosion about every 400k if I remember from the last time he commented on the subject. However, on your bog-standard 2nd gen that's got between 200k and 300k as most of them do at this point, they develop other injector problems, commonly along the lines of stuck pintles, lower opening pressures, dirty nozzles, etc.


Different failure modes in different use cases.

'95 2500 ECLB 4x4, 334k and paused due to epic transformation in progress.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 04:05 PM
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Thad, Air intrusion from factory fuel lines, fittings, etc?

I get a slight gray blue haze on my truck from first start (even plugged in) all the way up until the temp gauge is in the middle, once up to temp, the haze disappears. 230k miles on mine, a far cry from @GAmes trucks that have been to hell and back, probably several times over.

2002 ram 2500 quad cab shortbed ST. Red, 4x4, nv4500 swap 24v, 66mm silver bullet, 100hp injectors , fass titanium 150, 4" exhaust, guages. 190k miles.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 10:06 PM
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Yes, I do get 350-400k from mine, but D89 told you why. One thing I would do with those slightly larger injectors is bump the timing. Actually, I recommend bumping the timing with stock injectors. Better mileage, lower EGTs. 15 to 16 is plenty for an otherwise stock engine. I like 15 because when I was at 16 I didn't like the turbo-lag.

97 3500, 2 WD, G56, slightly bombed, 1.3 million miles with un-additized diesel fuel. Started the second million on 8/24/13
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 09:39 PM
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I would pour in a big bottle of HOT SHOT Secret stiction eliminator into the fuel system and see if it doesn't improve over a few hundred miles before I spent money on injectors. Even my 4th gen with 100k miles showed an improvement after running that stuff
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