Looking to join the Gen2 club. Have Q's? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Looking to join the Gen2 club. Have Q's?

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Hello,
Im thinking about getting a Gen2 Cummins, but have a few questions that hopefully I can get some insight on. I currently have a 18 GMC L5p Duramax and would like to go back in time a few years and love the Gen2 looks & simplicity of the Cummins. I will be using the truck for work and live in North Dakota so need something that starts good in extreme cold. It will be idling for long periods of time, I supervise crews so sit in the truck most of the day on a computer.
Questions:
Is there a "Better year" to look for?
What upgrades/builders do you recommend? Im looking for a 500-600 HP bullet proof truck, what would be your ideal build for that? & rough cost$$$?
Would you look for an old grandpa truck and start from scratch or buy something with a few add on already?
12V or 24V?
When I go look for a truck what concerns should I look for?
Any pointers or insight would be greatly appreciated?

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 01:56 PM
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Start here:
https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...ead-first.html

and

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...-articles.html

Second gen trucks can be some really great trucks. I don't think I'd really be wanting to go back in time 25 years from what you're in now, especially if you're inside of it for work all the time. The creature comforts in a 2018 are a different universe from 1998....Not trying to talk you out of it, but I wouldn't give up a warranty for a 20-25 year old vehicle either.

IF I were looking, I would definitely want to go unmolested grandpa truck so you know where you're starting from. KillerDowelPin, auto transmissions, steering are all things to look over. Cracked dash, worn interior are also likely issues, but those will be obvious.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the Reply.
Yeah the interior/comfort is a big concern, like Wifi & blue tooth. (which I can upgrade). I just don't know how well the long idle times are on emission equipped trucks(Its about $7K to delete these) Also Its tough to "Beat " a $60,000 truck up and down gravel roads all day. Just looking for knowledge and input so I can a better decision.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 02:21 PM
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Go drive some before you decide would be my advice. Preferably if you can get someone to let you take it down a dirt road. 12v are certainly the holy grail for reliability, though VP44 trucks can be great if you have a good fuel supply. It's getting harder and harder to find unmolested trucks these days where the seller doesn't want an insane price. Good luck which ever way you decide.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeGuy42 View Post
Im looking for a 500-600 HP bullet proof truck.......
First you can can't have two of the three. Reliable, inexpensive, high HP. What do you need more than stock HP/TQ for if you will be sitting and idling most of the time? If you want reliable (not bullet proof) stay under 300HP. It is detrimental for any engine, deleted or not, gas or diesel, to sit and idle for hours at a time. In addition, all the rotating parts like the AC, alternator, power steering pump,and transmission are always spinning and wearing. As you can see by the mileage, I've sat in my 2nd gen a lot of hours. (and replaced a lot of parts) My wife recently bought a '19 Hemi powered Ram. It is a joy to drive, comfortable and good to look at. In fact, after driving it a few thousand miles I was on board to get one that is diesel powered. That is until I built one on line and looked at the price tag. It's $15,000 to 20,000 more for a Cummins powered 2500 than a Hemi powered 1500. Point being, if you are accustomed to the cush comforts of the GM pickups a 2nd gen will not satisfy you.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 05:14 PM
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if you have to idle a while with either a 12 or 24v you really want some means of "high idle". the 24 has (or did a couple years ago) a plug in deal to have the engine idle up on its own when you tell it to. 12v really only options are a stick on the pedal or choke cable on throttle.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 05:41 PM
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if you have to idle a while with either a 12 or 24v you really want some means of "high idle". the 24 has (or did a couple years ago) a plug in deal to have the engine idle up on its own when you tell it to. 12v really only options are a stick on the pedal or choke cable on throttle.
That is an old trucker myth. A study showed that a high idle of an unloaded engine does nothing more than burn more fuel and wear the rotating parts out faster. A higher idle does keep the AC cooler in the summer and with an exhaust brake engaged, a warmer heater in the winter. For those reasons I have mine set to about 900. I have, a few times, been forced to spend the night in my truck in sub-zero weather while leaving the engine idling. I certainly don't recommend it.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:53 PM
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With what GAmes said it is important to keep in mind reliability suffers with any of the CR engines at 5-600HP too.

The benefit to the CR, provided you've done the supporting mods, is that it will be more street and towing friendly than any of the 2nd gen 12/24v engines. You want to tow? Change to a tow tune and you're ready to go.

That said, you can certainly build a reliable 12v at 600HP. Just don't expect it to go 500,000 miles like a stock engine will. Also do not expect it to tow at 600HP either. These points are also valid with a CR engine too.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 12:20 AM
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That is an old trucker myth. A study showed that a high idle of an unloaded engine does nothing more than burn more fuel and wear the rotating parts out faster. A higher idle does keep the AC cooler in the summer and with an exhaust brake engaged, a warmer heater in the winter. For those reasons I have mine set to about 900. I have, a few times, been forced to spend the night in my truck in sub-zero weather while leaving the engine idling. I certainly don't recommend it.
Iím not sure where the study took place, but when I was trucking (20 years class 8 trucks) if you left the engine at a dead idle at say -30 or lower the coolant temp would be cold & slobbering down the stack. My N 14 stayed nice & warm at 1000-1200rpm & burned about a gallon an hour. My 12 & 24 valves are the same, anything below -20 & they idle at 1000rpm minimum. Otherwise it cools right down. This is with rad closed right off with winterfront. Two winters ago I was out on a Callout,-38 on way down. Left for 5 mins at dead idle & cooled right down, sped up to 1200 & hung just under normal. Slept in the bunk lots during winter,never had a choice if you wanted it to start next day. I ran into a guy in Minot ND in blizzard once,complaining his truck wasnít throwing any heat. I went out to the truck& itís at dead idle faced into the wind, told him to turn around & idle the damned thing up. Saw. Him couple hours later & he couldnít thank me enough. He was from southern states & first trip north in winter & didnít know better.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:15 AM
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Iím not sure where the study took place, but when I was trucking (20 years class 8 trucks) if you left the engine at a dead idle at say -30 or lower the coolant temp would be cold & slobbering down the stack. My N 14 stayed nice & warm at 1000-1200rpm & burned about a gallon an hour. My 12 & 24 valves are the same, anything below -20 & they idle at 1000rpm minimum. Otherwise it cools right down. This is with rad closed right off with winterfront. Two winters ago I was out on a Callout,-38 on way down. Left for 5 mins at dead idle & cooled right down, sped up to 1200 & hung just under normal. Slept in the bunk lots during winter,never had a choice if you wanted it to start next day. I ran into a guy in Minot ND in blizzard once,complaining his truck wasnít throwing any heat. I went out to the truck& itís at dead idle faced into the wind, told him to turn around & idle the damned thing up. Saw. Him couple hours later & he couldnít thank me enough. He was from southern states & first trip north in winter & didnít know better.
Obviously a higher idle will keep the engine warmer. It is the washing of lubrication from the cylinder walls, and subsequent damage, that doesn't improve.

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 08:30 AM
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Obviously a higher idle will keep the engine warmer. It is the washing of lubrication from the cylinder walls, and subsequent damage, that doesn't improve.
Iím not sure what damage it causes & I was always under the impression washing of cylinder walls was related to engine temps not up to normal operating range. Like I said in previous post, drove & was around highway trucks for 20 years & been around diesels for better than 40-45 years. Only time there was an issue of slobbering/ wet stacking was like I said earlier about not having engine running at enough RPM to keep in normal operating temp. Far as extra wear & tear on parts, that can be debated until cows come home

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 09:11 AM
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Very few of us operate at temps of -30 or lower. I recall spending a night in a truckstop parking lot near Prince George, B.C. when the temps were in the -10 to -15 range. The engine stayed at operating temp all night, with the exhaust brake off, because I had a good thermostat. I have found that in the mornings a cold engine warms up much faster with the EB on. Class 8 truck engines are a different breed than the little 5.9. Operating RPM is much lower as is the normal idle. IMO it is cost effective to rent a motel room rather than idle the engine for 10 hours. I can count the number of times I've idled all night in the last 15 years on my fingers. Even at operating temp, with no load on the engine the cylinder walls get washed of lubricant and fuel finds it's way to the oil pan. No thanks.

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