Injection Pump Rebuild - Page 2 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 12:01 AM
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Have you thought about looking for a used pump? they sell for $4-500 usually.


'97 CCLB 2wd NV4500, SAC 5x11, 15*, ARP 425, #100 plate, 3k GSK, AFC spring kit, 60# exh spgs, fluidampr, 4 in flowpro, BHAF, Torktech OFV, fast coolers, SB 425 single, 37337, dually swap, flatbed.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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I might need a spare if I build another motor.

I'll admit that I don't know the inner workings of these pumps, and only know what I've read about their basic operation. This is why my expectations were not set correctly for the rebuild. I figured since folks (in some cases) have upwards of 300K+ on their motors that the hard parts inside would be mostly ok. This engine likely had somewhere on the order of 200K on it if I had to guess. But, it's just a guess. It sat for 10 years, and was 15 years old when the RV caught on fire. At 15K a year, that's 225K. At any rate, I'm in it now for sure. As far as a used pump, I've thought about it, but my intention with this build is to get 4-500K out of it. That's part of the reason I don't want to add a bunch of fuel and air to it. I want it to last as I'm putting quite a bit of money (to me) into my build. There's something to be said for a used pump for a while and then building another to put on down the road in order to finish the build out I suppose. At the end of the day, I don't mind spending the money, but I want value for those hard earned dollars, and I want to be sure that I'm getting it.

When I get the pump back, I'll take a bunch of pictures of it and post up. It'll be interesting to see how far they tore it down as they (Bosch shop) told me it's around 12 hours to tear down and build, but they're only charging me one hour for the check/estimate. I suppose if they put it on the bench and ran it, they'd be able to tell that parts were bad.

Thanks again all for the suggestions and knowledge! I truly appreciate it!!
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I had a sneaking suspicion that the Bosch shop didn't actually test my pump. And, they didn't. I put a dab of grease in each injector line hole when I pulled the pump so as to not get any junk down the holes as the pump sat in my garage. The grease is still in the holes. No safety wire was pulled, and no bolts loosened that I can see. So, the technician looked at the outside of the pump and said it needed fully rebuilt, with no check whatsoever. Why can't people just do what they say they're gonna do? Now I know where NOT to take any work for injectors or pumps in Cincinnati. The only upside is, they decided not to charge me anything for lying to me. I guess the technician is clairvoyant. Must be that fancy Bosch training he has. Jerks. Rant over.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 01:44 PM
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That's terrible, did they offer to not charge you before or after you showed them the grease?

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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They at least offered not to charge me before I checked for the grease. I felt bad until I saw it.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXSwap View Post
Well, I had a sneaking suspicion that the Bosch shop didn't actually test my pump. And, they didn't. I put a dab of grease in each injector line hole when I pulled the pump so as to not get any junk down the holes as the pump sat in my garage. The grease is still in the holes. No safety wire was pulled, and no bolts loosened that I can see. So, the technician looked at the outside of the pump and said it needed fully rebuilt, with no check whatsoever. Why can't people just do what they say they're gonna do? Now I know where NOT to take any work for injectors or pumps in Cincinnati. The only upside is, they decided not to charge me anything for lying to me. I guess the technician is clairvoyant. Must be that fancy Bosch training he has. Jerks. Rant over.
Something to keep in mind is that there is an increasing trend of shops refusing to run unknown-history pumps on test stands.

It's a common occurrence for a guy to buy a "built" pump from a reputable builder, keep his good/running pump for a spare or to resell as good/used, then satisfy the core with a unit from a junkyard or broken-down piece of equipment being parted out. That pump has probably been sitting exposed to the elements for months or years and the pump may have been the reason it went to scrap in the first place.

The shop I work for does a lot of work with Farrell Diesel Service, a year or two ago he had one too many pumps blow up on his stand. We have a good rapport with him, and even so, if I were to pull my known-good pump off my daily driver, he wouldn't even run that on his stand without a complete teardown first. Pump stands are too expensive, there's too much to go wrong in these from sitting, and come-aparts are dangerous. I talked with one shop that had a P7100 governor explode on the stand. A flyweight went through two layers of sheetrock and destroyed a computer monitor in the adjacent office. The operator happened to be standing off to the side reaching for a tool, if he hadn't he would have been in the line of fire and gotten seriously injured. That shop now has ballistic shields for each pump stand and discontinued max/balance jobs on used pumps.

I'm not saying that shop didn't lie to you, I don't know what was discussed, but unless they specifically said they would "run it on the stand" a basic inspection doesn't amount to running it on the stand anymore.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the feedback dauntless! They did not say that they would put it on a stand and test it, specifically. The instruction was: Do whatever you have to do to tell me what, if anything, is wrong with my pump, and what it takes to fix it. Same with the injectors. What I go back was, a pump that had zero parts removed and no evidence that it had been tested at all. Same with the injectors. Looking at them, it appears that only one of them may have been pop tested. I guess me asking what kind of hours this type of work takes turned them off.

It's disappointing to have a shop that does this for a living essentially tell me that they don't want or need my business. Clearly they have enough going on that they don't need my money. I'll move on and find another shop that actually wants the business.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 03:07 PM
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I was going to say that I wouldn't trust their pop test report either, especially since mine pop tested within spec after 400,000 miles. Yes, they were on the low side, but the main problem was erosion from the thousands of gallons of fuel that had enlarged the holes in the nozzles. Have you even attempted to start the engine with the pump installed?

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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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I have not. The motor came out of the barn, and was immediately torn down for rebuild. I may try to clean up my injectors and buy a pop tester as they aren't super expensive and test them myself just to see what's going on. I'm also going to pull the DV holders and inspect that and pull the AFC and fuel stop (plate) to see what all it consists of. Obviously, I'm not quite as educated on the pump as #1 I thought I was, and #2 I want to be. So, I still have some work to do in the fuel arena. Good thing I have a G56 to tear down while I'm deciding what to do!!

That thought has been creeping around in the back of my mind, trying to start the motor with what I have, but I've been pushing it away as I REALLY don't want to screw anything up at this point.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 05:27 PM
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IThat thought has been creeping around in the back of my mind, trying to start the motor with what I have, but I've been pushing it away as I REALLY don't want to screw anything up at this point.
Some time ago I had a pump from a '96 engine (since sold) that I bought complete. It is the engine currently in my truck. I had an oil leak in the original pump and had to remove it for repair and also had a planned trip to NY with the RV. I removed the DV holders in the '96 pump to check for cleanliness. I employed my special tool and rotated the pump and it didn't bind anywhere. I bolted it to the original engine and went to NY. The original pump was out of the shop when we returned, so I removed the '96 pump and reinstalled mine. The point is, in my opinion the worst that could happen is that the engine won't start. This is the tool, very handy for pump timing.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-23-2019, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thatís not a bad idea at all GAmes. Thanks! Iíll do a bit of work on it this weekend and see where I get. Wonít be able to start it (or try), but should be able to get a much better idea of the condition and at least turn it over and see how it feels. Iíll post up my findings.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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Finally got my pump mostly bolted to my motor in an effort to pull some parts off of it and see what's going on inside. I got as far as the DV's and made the decision that I'll be getting a different pump. There's quite a lot of crud inside, even though there's still diesel in it as well. It's almost like really coarse sand, but it's rusty too. In any case, I'll retain this one to tear apart at a later date and see if I can get it to clean up. At this point in my build, it seems silly to risk completely screwing a new set of injectors up when I can get a pump at a reasonable price. Not I get to go back and do more learning on the various HP model pumps. I can get 160, 175, and 215's on Rockauto.

The delivery valves didn't look like anything I'd seen here, but I figured out later that that's because I didn't take them all the way apart. I'll at least pull one apart so I can more positively identify them. They had "009" on them that I could see.
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