hard start when cold since pump swap - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Jeremy01995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Quebec
Posts: 271
Thanks: 7
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
hard start when cold since pump swap

hi, have change my modded 180 ppump( 4kgsk, 191delivery valve) to a 215 ppump. have put PDD Comp cut delivery valve/rack plug and Peak Diesel 4kgsk in it. with the 180 pump i never had problem to start when cold (under 60*F outside). but with the 215 pump it take forever to start.. grid heater is working great. have try to lower the timing to 16.. little change but not much( was at 21* timing with the 180 pump and it start right up at 5*F not plugged in). if u plug the truck it start right up.. but i can't plug the truck everywhere.. lol

215 pump was working great on the other truck before removal.

what can cause this?

tanks!


Ram 2500 1994 12v South bend DD Comp clutch,NV5600 Manual Trans /NP271. Compound 485 5blade and s362sxe/68/.70, 3piece manifold, ARP Head Stud, O'ring Head, 5x.020 injector, 191 Dv's,Rack Plug,Ppump 22* Timing, 4K GSK ,AFC Live 220GPH Fass
Jeremy01995 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Jeremy01995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Quebec
Posts: 271
Thanks: 7
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
anyone have an idea??

Ram 2500 1994 12v South bend DD Comp clutch,NV5600 Manual Trans /NP271. Compound 485 5blade and s362sxe/68/.70, 3piece manifold, ARP Head Stud, O'ring Head, 5x.020 injector, 191 Dv's,Rack Plug,Ppump 22* Timing, 4K GSK ,AFC Live 220GPH Fass
Jeremy01995 is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 01:20 AM
Cummins Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Oregon Coast
Posts: 98
Thanks: 77
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Are you setting the pump timing using the timing pin on the pump or with a dial indicator on #1 plunger? If you are using the timing pin and the pump has been molested (taken apart or modified) the pin may not be correct.

1995 RAM2500 Club Cab Laramie SLT 2 W/D 5.9 P-Pump w/ NV4500 3.54 Dana 80. Nearly stock. Timed @ 15.5* Currently 317,000 miles and counting.
dd453ford is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 10:06 AM
Diesel Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 640
Thanks: 22
Thanked 48 Times in 47 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
The notch cut in the helix of the 215 B&P can contribute to this. They add about 6* of timing when the rack is at idle measurement (I think somewhere around 5mm). I suppose it's possible that a couple more degrees are added when the rack is below idle RPM.

I noticed the same when switching to a 215 pump too.

You can adjust the AFC foot such that the gov arm falls below the AFC foot below idle RPM. That will allow more fueling at startup. Another solution is to just add some pedal when you crank it.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

91.0 D250 A727 w/ 216k on the clock. i/p replaced 20k ago, lift pump 2k, 1 turn fuel, 2 turns smoke, ground & polished AFC pin, timing bump, 366 spring 94 2500 4x4, 49k miles, Farrell Diesel rebuilt 215 pump, PDD 5x12 SAC, SXE 362, built 47RH
hemirunner426 is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 10:31 AM
Diesel Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 640
Thanks: 22
Thanked 48 Times in 47 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Here is an example timing chart on a 215 pump as it relates to rack travel. In this example the pump is pin timed at 13*.

6.0mm- 16.5* btdc
6.5mm- 15.5* btdc
7.0mm- 14.5* btdc
7.5mm- 14* btdc
8.0mm- 13.5* btdc
8.5mm to 16.0mm- 13* btdc
16.5mm- 13.5* btdc
17.0mm- 14.5* btdc
17.5mm- 15* btdc
18.0mm- 16* btdc
18.5mm- 17* btdc
19.0mm- 18* btdc
19.5mm- 18.5* btdc
20.0 to 21.0mm- 19* btdc

91.0 D250 A727 w/ 216k on the clock. i/p replaced 20k ago, lift pump 2k, 1 turn fuel, 2 turns smoke, ground & polished AFC pin, timing bump, 366 spring 94 2500 4x4, 49k miles, Farrell Diesel rebuilt 215 pump, PDD 5x12 SAC, SXE 362, built 47RH
hemirunner426 is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 02:25 PM
Cummins Nut
 
Truefat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 324
Thanks: 15
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemirunner426 View Post
Here is an example timing chart on a 215 pump as it relates to rack travel. In this example the pump is pin timed at 13*.

6.0mm- 16.5* btdc
6.5mm- 15.5* btdc
7.0mm- 14.5* btdc
7.5mm- 14* btdc
8.0mm- 13.5* btdc
8.5mm to 16.0mm- 13* btdc
16.5mm- 13.5* btdc
17.0mm- 14.5* btdc
17.5mm- 15* btdc
18.0mm- 16* btdc
18.5mm- 17* btdc
19.0mm- 18* btdc
19.5mm- 18.5* btdc
20.0 to 21.0mm- 19* btdc
Are you saying then that a stock timed pump at 13.5* is actually running at 17* at idle. I always assumed that the idle was at 13.5* and then the pump would be retarded 3.5* when in the bottom of the notch. How far does the rack go with the stock rack plug. I don't see how the timing advances above 17* on the other side of the notch since it seems flat with the top of the plunger.

p.s. I guess this is why you need to give the pump 1/4 throttle in cold weather.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	x4ksk7.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	29.5 KB
ID:	839043  

1998 2500HD Laramie SLT 4x4 12v QCSB 5 spd 3.55 200k stock
2004 2500 Laramie 2wd 305hp QCSB 6spd 3.73 200k stock
Truefat is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 09:21 PM
Diesel Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 640
Thanks: 22
Thanked 48 Times in 47 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
The stock rack plug will only allow 18mm as I recall. The 'mack' plug will allow 21mm. The stock AFC/fuel plate configuration allows only in the neighborhood of 14mm of travel. This is why it was assumed for a long time that the 215 pump retards timing with rack travel/RPM.

All this information is what I recollect from talking to Farrell Diesel. He is who benched my 180 pump and rebuilt my 215.

91.0 D250 A727 w/ 216k on the clock. i/p replaced 20k ago, lift pump 2k, 1 turn fuel, 2 turns smoke, ground & polished AFC pin, timing bump, 366 spring 94 2500 4x4, 49k miles, Farrell Diesel rebuilt 215 pump, PDD 5x12 SAC, SXE 362, built 47RH
hemirunner426 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to hemirunner426 For This Useful Post:
Truefat (01-23-2019)
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 10:03 PM
Cummins Nut
 
Truefat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 324
Thanks: 15
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemirunner426 View Post
The stock AFC/fuel plate configuration allows only in the neighborhood of 14mm of travel.
Now that I think about it, running a 215 pump without a fuel plate is all the more a bad idea as the fuel will come on like a light switch in the last 2 mm

1998 2500HD Laramie SLT 4x4 12v QCSB 5 spd 3.55 200k stock
2004 2500 Laramie 2wd 305hp QCSB 6spd 3.73 200k stock
Truefat is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Jeremy01995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Quebec
Posts: 271
Thanks: 7
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
i stay with my shut off solenoid and throttle linkage.. since i swap the pump sometime the truck didnt stop with the key.. have to open the hood and shut put the lever down.. strange

i put my old 180 pump on the other engine.. run like a champ

Ram 2500 1994 12v South bend DD Comp clutch,NV5600 Manual Trans /NP271. Compound 485 5blade and s362sxe/68/.70, 3piece manifold, ARP Head Stud, O'ring Head, 5x.020 injector, 191 Dv's,Rack Plug,Ppump 22* Timing, 4K GSK ,AFC Live 220GPH Fass
Jeremy01995 is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 12:00 AM
Cummins Fan
 
Cumstromax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Safford, AZ
Posts: 79
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
From my experience 215 pumps don't love mack plugs.
Cumstromax is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome