So, you think you wanna G56 your 4wd 12v? - Page 3 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
94-98 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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post #25 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 11:00 AM
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Ok i'm rebuilding a 94 sc 4x4dwr that was a v10 and now will be a 12v. It had the auto in it. I have the complete drivetrain out. My question is since you have done most of this with the engine in the truck, do you think it would be easier to do the trans conversion work with the engine out or should i put the engine in first?


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post #26 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 12:24 PM
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Ok i'm rebuilding a 94 sc 4x4dwr that was a v10 and now will be a 12v. It had the auto in it. I have the complete drivetrain out. My question is since you have done most of this with the engine in the truck, do you think it would be easier to do the trans conversion work with the engine out or should i put the engine in first?
To get the correct measurement for the driveshaft(s) the engine needs to be installed. The driveshaft in mine is almost 3/4 inch different in length than the 2WD truck that provided all the info I used for my conversion. A 4WD might be a different circumstance however. Installing the single mass flywheel, clutch & PP is definitely easier with the engine out.

97 3500, 2 WD, G56, slightly bombed, 1.3 million miles. Started the second million on 8/24/13
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post #27 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 01:43 PM
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The driveshafts arent my concern having done 2 destroked swaps. my concern was more on the fitting of the trans and making the mods for the transfer case shifter and such

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post #28 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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You need the engine in place to position the trans properly so you can know what modifications need to be made and where. It's not bad, there's plenty of room to work under there. In some ways, it feels like there's actually more room to work because there aren't tubes, hoses, wires, and crap like that cluttering up one side of the tunnel.

I edited some reference information, including other swap threads, into post #1.

I also learned something while doing my transfer case today. There is a caged needle bearing inside the input shaft which is essentially a pilot bearing for the mainshaft of the transfer case. I didn't know this when I ordered it from Andy, so I didn't get to ask him whether or not the new input comes with this bearing. Turns out it did not. At first I thought it was pressed into a pocket because the FSM shows removing it with a special pulling tool. I saw pictures of this bearing online that made it look like they came in both "cup" and "cage" configurations. A cage bearing is where the bearings are retained in a cage (tapered wheel bearings are a good example), but a cup bearing is a cage bearing with one end plugged, which functionally would seal the shaft if it were hollow (think of the needle bearings in a u-joint cup). Then I looked at my new, empty input shaft and saw it was hollow. Not knowing what I had, I stuck my old input in a press to see.

As it turns out, the input shaft is hollow, and what I thought was a cup bearing is actually a caged needle bearing and a freeze plug.

That's right, a standard freeze plug is used to seal the input shaft. The bearing was not bad and came out perfectly usable, however the freeze plug was too mangled for me to reuse (for what a freeze plug costs). The size is 1 5/8", so if you're replacing your input, know what you need ahead of time.

Other than that, just about everything in my transfer case looked perfect with the exception of the front output bearing. It wasn't bad yet, but I noticed when cleaning that it was just getting a little crunchy. Bearings are cheap, everything they touch is not, so out with the old.

I'm going to get cracking on the bracket for the transfer case linkage.

'95 2500 ECLB 4x4, 334k and paused due to epic transformation in progress.

Last edited by dauntless89; 12-16-2014 at 07:15 PM.
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post #29 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Got the transfer case shifter mount done. I'll need to work on the shifter itself as I found the interference issue that MStearns ran into. I also got the new mount welded onto the crossmember. I'll post pics and details this weekend when I have some time.

'95 2500 ECLB 4x4, 334k and paused due to epic transformation in progress.
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post #30 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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I wanted to mention something as far as sealing the transfer case and transmission case halves.

At work, I frequently run into shaft seal issues with a certain brand of hydraulic motor. To replace the seal, the motor has to be disassembled. The really awesome part is that this manufacturer has chosen to not employ a traditional o-ring for sealing the case halves of the motor. Instead, the technician is expected to use a sealant on the cleaned, bare case halves. For this, I use Loctite 518. In using it, I have never had a case seal failure, even when the boss was in my face to get the thing fixed and I didn't have time to fully clean the old stuff off. One of these motors even has stripped threads in a bolt hole that would be helping clamp the halves together. The 518 has demonstrated excellent chemical resistance, and in this application is subjected to operating pressures around 2000psi, as well as temperatures far exceeding "touchable."

When I learned I would be disassembling my G56, my first thought was to use my trusty Loctite 518 to seal it back up. When I actually got it apart, I noticed the dried stuff on the case halves looked identical to what I see when I tear those hydraulic motors apart. Later on, doing my transfer case (where I also decided to employ the 518) I found that Loctite 518 is actually specified in the FSM as an appropriate sealant, along with "Mopar Gasket Maker" and "Mopar silicone adhesive/sealant." The Mopar silicone adhesive/sealant sounds a lot like RTV to me, which I'm sure would work if nothing more suitable was available. What I've read on Mopar Gasket Maker suggests that it and 518 are quite similar, in that they're both anaerobic sealants designed for use on machined aluminum flanges. That said I have no experience with Mopar Gasket Maker.

I recommend the 518 not only because of my experience with it, but it's also cheaper and should be much more easy to find than Mopar Gasket Maker. Anyone who carries Loctite products should be able to get it, if your local fastener supply store doesn't have it on the shelf. Zoro Tools, the online retailer who currently has the best price on Delvac Synthetic Transmission Fluid 50 (which you should be putting in your G56 instead of ATF, don't get me started on that) also has the best price I've found on Loctite 518.

'95 2500 ECLB 4x4, 334k and paused due to epic transformation in progress.
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post #31 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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On an unrelated note, I was perusing the '95 FSM looking for information on wiring.

From Page 21-146:

Quote:
PARK/NEUTRAL POSITION SWITCH
The center terminal of the park/neutral position switch is the starter circuit terminal. It provides the ground for the starter solenoid circuit through the selector lever in Park and Neutral positions only. The outer terminals on the switch are for the backup lamp circuit.
From page 6-3:

Quote:
CLUTCH PEDAL POSITION SWITCH
All BR models are equipped with a clutch pedal position switch (Fig. 7). The switch is in circuit with the starter relay and is mounted on the clutch master cylinder push rod. The switch is actuated by clutch pedal movement. The clutch pedal must be fully depressed in order to start the engine. The position switch is an integral part of the clutch master cylinder push rod and is not serviced separately. Position switch circuitry is provided at the end of this section (refer to Figure 10).
The PNPS on the 47RH is the one with the big round connector with three bullet terminals in a line. It is impinged upon by the rooster comb. Unless there's a clean way to tie into the plug on the wiring harness, I'm going to cut the plug off, and splice each outer wire into the harness I have for the G56's reverse light switch. Since the clutch pedal must be "fully" depressed, I'll just ground out the center wire on the harness. The bolt that holds the G56 reverse light switch in place should be a convenient ground.

I was unable to find in the manual any link between the clutch and cruise control. If someone is willing, I'd love it if someone could do a test for me: Set cruise control at any speed. If it's an auto, bump the gearshift into neutral. What happens? If it's a manual, tap the clutch. What happens? Clutch all the way in. What happens?

I'll be unable to do anything under the truck this weekend, but I can make plugs for the coolant lines going to and from the oil-water cooler. At this point I'm waiting on a clutch release arm and my driveshafts, all of which I should be getting Monday. My rear main is replaced and my flywheel/clutch is installed for good.

My remaining to-do list:
  • Install empty transmission to mock up new release arm.
  • Mock up transfer case shifter and modify as necessary.
  • Make exhaust mount.
  • Remove transmission and fill it up with gears.
  • Make wiring modifications.
  • Install (for good) transmission, transfer case, crossmember, driveshafts.
  • Remove oil-water cooler.
  • Install boot.
  • Remove gearshift and one remaining linkage piece from column.
  • Remove gearshift indicator from instrument cluster.
  • Remove O/D Off button and eventually replace with another blockout panel.
  • Enjoy.

Pics tomorrow.

'95 2500 ECLB 4x4, 334k and paused due to epic transformation in progress.
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post #32 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dauntless89 View Post
I wanted to mention something as far as sealing the transfer case and transmission case halves.

At work, I frequently run into shaft seal issues with a certain brand of hydraulic motor. To replace the seal, the motor has to be disassembled. The really awesome part is that this manufacturer has chosen to not employ a traditional o-ring for sealing the case halves of the motor. Instead, the technician is expected to use a sealant on the cleaned, bare case halves. For this, I use Loctite 518. In using it, I have never had a case seal failure, even when the boss was in my face to get the thing fixed and I didn't have time to fully clean the old stuff off. One of these motors even has stripped threads in a bolt hole that would be helping clamp the halves together. The 518 has demonstrated excellent chemical resistance, and in this application is subjected to operating pressures around 2000psi, as well as temperatures far exceeding "touchable."

When I learned I would be disassembling my G56, my first thought was to use my trusty Loctite 518 to seal it back up. When I actually got it apart, I noticed the dried stuff on the case halves looked identical to what I see when I tear those hydraulic motors apart. Later on, doing my transfer case (where I also decided to employ the 518) I found that Loctite 518 is actually specified in the FSM as an appropriate sealant, along with "Mopar Gasket Maker" and "Mopar silicone adhesive/sealant." The Mopar silicone adhesive/sealant sounds a lot like RTV to me, which I'm sure would work if nothing more suitable was available. What I've read on Mopar Gasket Maker suggests that it and 518 are quite similar, in that they're both anaerobic sealants designed for use on machined aluminum flanges. That said I have no experience with Mopar Gasket Maker.

I recommend the 518 not only because of my experience with it, but it's also cheaper and should be much more easy to find than Mopar Gasket Maker. Anyone who carries Loctite products should be able to get it, if your local fastener supply store doesn't have it on the shelf. Zoro Tools, the online retailer who currently has the best price on Delvac Synthetic Transmission Fluid 50 (which you should be putting in your G56 instead of ATF, don't get me started on that) also has the best price I've found on Loctite 518.
I use 518 between the block and the girdle it works very well


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post #33 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 09:48 AM
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If the clutch pedal is depressed the cruise control will disengage.

When I did my conversion Standard Transmission recommended Pennzoil Synchromesh, which is what I've been using. Later on I believe they switched their alliance to Amsoil synchromesh. I recently had the trans out for a new release bearing, so had them go through it. Only the front support bearing required replacement after 300k of use. I read the article in the TDR that recommends the Mobil Delvac but I'm happy with the Pennzoil.

97 3500, 2 WD, G56, slightly bombed, 1.3 million miles. Started the second million on 8/24/13
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post #34 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renopker View Post
I use 518 between the block and the girdle it works very well
The girdle meaning the adapter? Good to know, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAmes View Post
If the clutch pedal is depressed the cruise control will disengage.

When I did my conversion Standard Transmission recommended Pennzoil Synchromesh, which is what I've been using. Later on I believe they switched their alliance to Amsoil synchromesh. I recently had the trans out for a new release bearing, so had them go through it. Only the front support bearing required replacement after 300k of use. I read the article in the TDR that recommends the Mobil Delvac but I'm happy with the Pennzoil.
After some reading, as of 12/4/14, Mobiltrans SHC DC was the only oil available in the US that technically meets the requirements of the Mercedes specification. This oil was superseded by Delvac STF 50 some time ago, which has not technically been approved by Mercedes. However I think the updated version of the only approved oil is the safest bet.

That said, if you're putting your seal of approval on the Pennzoil after 300,000 hard miles, I would say it's a good choice. For that matter, any quality oil meeting API MT-1 should be serviceable.

Whichever oil one chooses to run, the take-away here is that you can't lubricate a gearbox with hydraulic oil, and what Dodge did in disregarding the designer's lubricant specifications and requiring their proprietary ATF+4 to be used in the transmission to maintain warranty is morally treasonable.

'95 2500 ECLB 4x4, 334k and paused due to epic transformation in progress.

Last edited by dauntless89; 12-20-2014 at 04:58 PM.
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post #35 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 02:06 PM
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Girdle to block this is why a good seal is necessary.


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post #36 of 239 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 02:18 PM
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Whichever oil one chooses to run, the take-away here is that you can't lubricate a gearbox with with hydraulic oil, and what Dodge did in disregarding the designer's lubricant specifications and requiring their proprietary ATF+4 to be used in the transmission to maintain warranty is morally treasonable.
I and dozens of trailer towers agree. A friend of mine bought a '10 with a G56 to pull his 36 ft 5er. When the trans started making noise the Ram dealer network jerked him around until the truck was no longer in warranty. He was amazed how quiet mine was with (at the time) twice as many miles. He traded it for a '13 with an auto.

97 3500, 2 WD, G56, slightly bombed, 1.3 million miles. Started the second million on 8/24/13
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