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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Build your own head studs..

Fastenall has 12.9 class m12 threaded rod available, and also the nuts.. Now has anyone considered making your own studs? Can't see why this wouldnt work? Thoughts?

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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 01:16 PM
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Probably not worth the time/money it saves if it fails?? Does make sense though

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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 01:44 PM
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Sure, you can make your own studs. But do you think you can create a set of studs that matches the properties and quality of ARP or Extreme Studs for the same cost or less?

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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Are ARP studs threaded fully or no?

And no I can't match their quality per say but makes me wonder if their threads are roll formed or cut, makes a big difference.

Either way I guess my made up studs would be a step above bolts....
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat-Black View Post
Are ARP studs threaded fully or no?

And no I can't match their quality per say but makes me wonder if their threads are roll formed or cut, makes a big difference.

Either way I guess my made up studs would be a step above bolts....
They are not threaded fully and have coarse thread on the block end and fine thread for the 12pt nuts.

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a pic of standard thread bolt engagement... Which is not much!! I'm going to add 10mm to each bolt and run new holo krome socket head cap screws.
each stock head bolt only gives you 20mm of engaged threads.
Although in engineering terms you only need a small % of engaged threads... Still it doesn't sit well with me.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat-Black View Post
Are ARP studs threaded fully or no?

And no I can't match their quality per say but makes me wonder if their threads are roll formed or cut, makes a big difference.
I almost guarantee they are rolled threads. It's faster and cheaper than cutting threads.


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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 08:24 PM
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ARPs have rolled threads.

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-18-2016, 02:30 AM
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From my understanding part of what makes the arp's superior is that they use fine thread for the top of the stud. Gives a more consistent torque and clamping force. If you just want a cheap upgrade, you can use a set of the Allen headed cap screws that are rated 12.9
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 10:23 AM
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I can't address the quality of the Fastenal threaded rod. Rolled threads can have denser and smoother surfaces than cut ones. Torque is just an inexpensive way to measure tension in the fastener (clamping force). Torque is also a function of rotational friction so smoother threads and nut and washer faces are better. Due to the physics of inclined planes fine threads on one end of the stud allows better control of clamping force versus torque. One advantage of studs (or threaded rod and nuts) is that they can be fully engaged into the block before they have any tension on them. This makes the torsional friction a function of the threads and nuts instead of the threads and the cast iron threads in the block. It also preserves the threads in the block and vastly reduces the error induced by the twisting of the fastener even with coarse threads on both ends.
From what I have read the stock bolts are designed as single use bolts (torque to yield on initial assembly?)

Keep the rod cool when you cut it and clean up the ends so you don't alter the tempering. You could do some testing with a short length of rod through a steel plate with nuts and washers on both ends to get a feel of how tough the Fastenal rod is.

I've never had a head off a Cummins but chances are that a bottom tap run into the block could let you run the rod into the block a few more turns. This may not be necessary but if I was going to this trouble I'd feel better for doing it.

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Yes that is correct info.. Now I've learned towards a 10mm longer holo krome bolt, because the threaded rod is damn near the same cost as the ARP studs. I've bottom tapped the head holes with at least 4-5 turns more, the only thing you have to watch is the grip lenghth of the bolt. Bit of measuring and I've found they will not interfere with anything.
Working on different main bolts now too, I also bottom tapped them and want to run +10mm... Fun stuff
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clc View Post
I can't address the quality of the Fastenal threaded rod. Rolled threads can have denser and smoother surfaces than cut ones. Torque is just an inexpensive way to measure tension in the fastener (clamping force). Torque is also a function of rotational friction so smoother threads and nut and washer faces are better. Due to the physics of inclined planes fine threads on one end of the stud allows better control of clamping force versus torque. One advantage of studs (or threaded rod and nuts) is that they can be fully engaged into the block before they have any tension on them. This makes the torsional friction a function of the threads and nuts instead of the threads and the cast iron threads in the block. It also preserves the threads in the block and vastly reduces the error induced by the twisting of the fastener even with coarse threads on both ends.
From what I have read the stock bolts are designed as single use bolts (torque to yield on initial assembly?)

Keep the rod cool when you cut it and clean up the ends so you don't alter the tempering. You could do some testing with a short length of rod through a steel plate with nuts and washers on both ends to get a feel of how tough the Fastenal rod is.

I've never had a head off a Cummins but chances are that a bottom tap run into the block could let you run the rod into the block a few more turns. This may not be necessary but if I was going to this trouble I'd feel better for doing it.
I agree with everything being said here except that bit about inclined planes. The thread is 60 degrees in both the course and fine, vector is the same in both cases. The advantage of fine thread is they can support higher clamping forces because of increased surface area, but only about 10%. The thread engagement on the top is limited by the nut, that's why they're fine thread. More threads in given distance.

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