shake/wobble when driving after new tires - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
94-98 Non-Powertrain Discussion of 94-98 Topics Not related to the Powertrain...NO ADVERTISING

 7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Cheeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 228
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
shake/wobble when driving after new tires

I am at my wits end with this and so is the tire shop. I need someone who can help me think critically about this out of the ordinary problem.

I have a 50 hour drive ahead of me, so I went and bought some new tires. The dealer talked me into General Grabbers. I've been running Firestone Transforce HT tires with no problem until now. My rims are aftermarket aluminum. The old tires were very evenly worn, as good as you could ever ask for. The tire place sent me off with one wheel loose... the lug nuts were only started by hand, never tightened up. They sent a truck and got them tightened up and I went on my way. The truck shook and vibrated. I took it back and they re-balanced them, same results. Repeat this a few times, then they tell me it must be my rims, that my center hub doesn't match the hub on my truck and how my rims are hard to deal with because of how they were made, etc...

So, I took it to another shop that specializes in rims. They said my rims were fine and they are lug centering wheels, not hub centering wheels, so the hub size doesn't matter (which I already knew), and the one was damaged some by running loose, but not out of round. They balanced the tires and sent me on my way... still shaking. I jacked it up in the back yard and put it in drive and checked the rim runout with a makeshift scribe. Nothing. I put my hand on the tire tread and could feel a good bit of hop... probably 3/16" or so. I took the tires back to the place I bought them and told him to take them off and put some Michelins on. He ordered them and I went today to have them put on.

At first they felt pretty smooth with some vibration around 58mph. As the day went on, it got worse to the point of the back of my passenger seat bouncing. Brought it home and jacked it up again and checked side-to-side runout and found nothing alarming. Checked eccentric runout, nothing there either. The wheels are tight, the bearings are brand new a few weeks ago (preventively, done while I had the rotors off for a brake job). Very little play in the front end. I'm at a loss. Now I can drive it and feel it a tiny bit and it seems like it will be tolerable, but then after a while it gets bad and doesn't go away after it starts. It seems to change in frequency and intensity in relation to vehicle speed but not consistently. Sometimes when I brake I feel it in the front even harder but not all the time. I'm usually pretty good at solving these kinds of things but this one is kicking my butt. I'd be glad for any suggestions.


96 12 valve club cab lwb 2500 2wd 250k 3.55 gears, 265/75-r16, OFV at 30, no plate, AFC full fwd, HX35 at 35 psi boost, Timing~16.5, 5x11s, 2790 BHAF, Banks hi-flo muffler, 3.5" exhaust, Deleted prefilter & heater, mildly built 47re, billet single TC. KDPF
Cheeze is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 11:45 AM
Cummins Nut
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 435
Thanks: 8
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
When you checked runout after the Michelins went on, did you check all four wheels or just the original position of the one originally left loose? Maybe that wheel is off enough to be a problem (regardless of shop #2's assurances) and if it's in a different position now after the new tires and various rebalances and you only rechecked the previous position... I imagine you checked all four, so I'm just throwing that out there to make sure that possibility was covered.

I'd still be wondering about the one damaged from being left loose. Can you post some pics of that, so we can see the damaged areas?

Can you try swapping tires front-to-back and see if the feeling changes?

You mentioned jacking up the rear and checking runout - I guess the loose wheel was on the rear when you left the first shop?

'96 2500 club-cab, long bed, 2WD - Dipricol trans/boost/pyro gauges, ISSPRO fuel pressure gauge, +2qt Chrysler trans pan, Sport headlight retrofit & suvlights conversion harness, fuel heater deleted, KDP tabbed, Raybestos WC37290 (1-1/16") wheel cylinders
texasprd is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Cheeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 228
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Thanks, the loose wheel was the right front. They've moved it around to different places but the shake persisted. I checked runout on all 4. I'll try to get a pic of the damaged rim. The only damage I could see is the holes for the lug studs got opened up some from the studs chewing them up. Heading back to the tire shop again in a few minutes.

96 12 valve club cab lwb 2500 2wd 250k 3.55 gears, 265/75-r16, OFV at 30, no plate, AFC full fwd, HX35 at 35 psi boost, Timing~16.5, 5x11s, 2790 BHAF, Banks hi-flo muffler, 3.5" exhaust, Deleted prefilter & heater, mildly built 47re, billet single TC. KDPF
Cheeze is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 05:02 PM
Cummins Nut
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 435
Thanks: 8
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I should have thought of this earlier... Do you have decent spare? If you're still shaking after the tire shop trip, put the spare on in place of the damaged rim. See what happens. If no improvement, try it in the other positions and see if anything changes.

Recheck bearings and suspension/steering components on the right front, just in case. May as well check on the LF, too - maybe a big coincidence occurred and something on the LF went into distress at the same time.
dhoagland likes this.

'96 2500 club-cab, long bed, 2WD - Dipricol trans/boost/pyro gauges, ISSPRO fuel pressure gauge, +2qt Chrysler trans pan, Sport headlight retrofit & suvlights conversion harness, fuel heater deleted, KDP tabbed, Raybestos WC37290 (1-1/16") wheel cylinders
texasprd is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Cheeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 228
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I went to the tire shop again and had them balanced one more time. This time I told him to make sure the machine says OK instead of pulling the wheel off after putting the weights on. Then I told him to loosen the wheel and clock it 180 degrees and check them again. He wouldn't. He said it won't read right because the wheel position changed. I said, if it's balanced, then it's balanced and it doesn't matter what position it's in. He tried with one and it read off balance again. He wouldn't do it to the others. The 4th tire would never read OK. It asked for 5 oz in one place and he put the weights on, spun it, and then it asked for 3.75 oz in another spot and 1 oz in another. He said the machine just does that sometimes.

I have to cut my ties with them and have an appointment at another shop for Monday morning. These guys left my wheel loose, inflated 10 ply tires on an 8k truck to 32 psi (should be 72), bent my center cap bolt on one wheel, ordered the wrong size replacement tires, let me show up for the appointment and then informed me I had to come back another day because they were out of wheel weights, and told me the hub size was my problem when they aren't hub centering rims. I'm losing more time from work than it's worth and it looks like the are incapable. Strange, because they are the ones who do the city equipment and lots of other commercial stuff and have for probably 50 years. Sign of the times I guess, nobody has knowledge or work ethic anymore.

Now it seems to be fairly smooth for the first 20 minutes or so, but as the tires warm up, the problem gets worse. So how do you balance a hot tire? I wouldn't think the balance would change with temp but it does. Maybe it's a flaw with the tires?

I may try the spare tire thing, been thinking about that but short on time.

96 12 valve club cab lwb 2500 2wd 250k 3.55 gears, 265/75-r16, OFV at 30, no plate, AFC full fwd, HX35 at 35 psi boost, Timing~16.5, 5x11s, 2790 BHAF, Banks hi-flo muffler, 3.5" exhaust, Deleted prefilter & heater, mildly built 47re, billet single TC. KDPF
Cheeze is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 06:53 PM
Cummins Nut
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 435
Thanks: 8
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I'm shaking my head in disbelief at the balancing episode you just described. This was shop #1 in the original post? I'm certainly no expert on tire balancing (certifiable non-expert), but it sounds to me like there is something wrong there. Perhaps the balancing machine is screwed up, maybe bad inputs like erroneous rim width, offset... who knows... It definitely sounds like the guy doing the balancing is a question mark... Calling for almost 9.75oz of weight on one tire seems like an awful lot, given your tire size as listed. Was that on the damaged wheel? If your tires are as described in your sig line, then your tires are a little bigger than mine (I have stock 245/75-R16), but not that much bigger - and I don't have anywhere near 9.75oz on any of them. I don't know what your rims are like - maybe they aren't very consistent in weight distribution (but evidently you had satisfactory balance on the old tires). If it was going to take that much weight, I'd have had him break the tire loose and rotate it on the rim and see how much weight the balancer called for after that.

I doubt it's a flaw with the tires - you're experiencing this with two sets from different manufacturers. Not impossible, but I'd put it further down the list.

Are they using clip-on weights or adhesive weights?

Here's an interesting article on the subject of adding weight more than once. It addresses several things that relate to your situation, especially since you have a damaged wheel. To me, that's really an unknown as to how it balances vs on-vehicle behavior.

I hope someone else has some additional thoughts on this!

'96 2500 club-cab, long bed, 2WD - Dipricol trans/boost/pyro gauges, ISSPRO fuel pressure gauge, +2qt Chrysler trans pan, Sport headlight retrofit & suvlights conversion harness, fuel heater deleted, KDP tabbed, Raybestos WC37290 (1-1/16") wheel cylinders
texasprd is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 07:08 PM
Diesel Freak
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: South Texas
Posts: 712
Thanks: 1
Thanked 91 Times in 74 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
10 oz is crazy. My wheels are welded up by hand with 2" inserts with big, heavy 295s, and of the seven I had mounted with tires, the most weight used is 5 oz. And they're glassy smooth with no perceptible runout.

All right. Let's assume it's not the wheels or tires, but rather a result of running for a bit with the loose rim. Maybe a new set of bearings was damaged by the wobble? Maybe they're cheap, or they were installed wrong, and the wobble kicked 'em over into a failure mode. You drive for a little bit, everything gets hot, and that one bearing vibrates more?

Check for an oil leak at the hub seals.

Check for any discoloration or visible wear at the hub seals.

Check for one hub being noticeably warmer when the vibration gets bad.

Other possibility... maybe that bad wobble with the loose wheel killed a shock. Or weakened it. If anything gets looser with heat, it might be the seals in a shock. It gets hot, it stops being a shock, your axle vibration caused by road input gets worse. I have experienced shocks stop working when they get hot when they have bad valves/bad working fluid control.

Pull one end of each shock while they're still hot and check for looseness.

Still thinking. This is a real stinker of a problem.

2016 3500 LL CC LB 4x4 CTD DRW Delmonico red. BDS 3" truss radius arms & 3" coils w/double Fox 2.0s. Synergy drag link & tie rod. Dual stabilizers.
Carli track bar. Carli torsion anti-sway. Synergy steering box stabilizer. Rear 2" blocks. Weldcraft 17x8 custom steel duallies w/Mickey Thompson 295/70-17 ATXP3s.
AEV axle covers. AEV vented hood. Luverne polished stainless steel boards. Bakflip MX4 hard cover. Bushwacker max coverage flares.
B-pillar vinyl delete. Mopar door chrome. Areion semi-truck flap mounts. Steelcraft polished stainless light guards.
EricPeterson is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 07:23 PM
Diesel Freak
 
dhoagland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aubrey, Texas
Posts: 616
Thanks: 84
Thanked 52 Times in 47 Posts
iTrader Score: 1 reviews
Do you have a friend who would swap tire and rim assemblies with you?
(And yes, I sound like an ignorant parts changer right now)...

If the problem follows the tires and rims the argument is over.
98whitelightnin likes this.

03 2500 SO QC 4x4. Airaid, 2nd Gen Intake, Grid Heater Delete, D-Tech 62/65/12, Magnaflow. Bully Dog: Propane Injection, Triple Dog W/Outlook Crazy Larry. Edge EZ, BD Flow-Max, frame mount 3 Micron filter W/Water Separator, Big line kit "Wild Cat Version" 48RE: Sonnax Sure Cure/Transgo combination, Derale turbulator, billet input, Triple Disc,Super servo, 4 ring Accumulator.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dhoagland; 09-06-2019 at 07:24 PM. Reason: Spelling
dhoagland is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 07:47 PM
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks: 10
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Maybe that rim that was loose is damaged. Try changing it with your spare, if you can.
Since its lug centered, if the lug holes were deformed how can the rim run true ?
A balance machine uses the wheel centers, see what I mean?
You bolt it on truck, and now its centering on lugs but it was balanced on the center hole.
dhoagland likes this.
sdowney717 is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 08:30 PM
Diesel Head
 
steelhead1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,044
Thanks: 43
Thanked 144 Times in 131 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Who takes a 7 year old truck to buy tires at Dodge dealer and get dealer reamed?

Get them Road Force balanced by the most highly recommended shop in your area. Lots of dodos don't know how to run the machine, set the weights or even set up the machine.
dhoagland likes this.
steelhead1 is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Cheeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 228
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelhead1 View Post
Who takes a 7 year old truck to buy tires at Dodge dealer and get dealer reamed?

Get them Road Force balanced by the most highly recommended shop in your area. Lots of dodos don't know how to run the machine, set the weights or even set up the machine.

It's a 23 year old truck and I took it to a tire dealer, not the Dodge dealership. This is the 5 star tire shop, rated online and recommended by many. Independently owned and been here for decades. Something has changed with them apparently. There are other tire places but two of them have proven to be equally bad in the past. There is a Mavis here but when I took the wife's ride there, they couldn't get the tires balanced on it for anything but took my money anyway. I may have to go to a nearby big city and find someone more competent if the shop I'm taking it to Monday can't figure it out (they're a very busy, clean, professional up and coming shop looking to make new customers). I went in and talked with the owner and he rode with me to feel the shake and he says it's definitely a balance issue. I plan to call Michelin and ask for some direction from a tech there if this next shop can't figure it out.

I get what you're saying about the loose rim Eric, but with the wheel jacked up and a scribe on the rim, I show no runout. Not in eccentric or laterally. The axle seals were just replaced a few weeks ago on the rear. The front just has a hub/rotor and there is no play in any of the bearings, front or rear. I don't think the loose wheel could have touched a shock (independent front suspension, not 4wd), so it's pretty doubtful that a shock suddenly went bad and is allowing this kind of behavior. I wish I knew someone I could just swap wheels with for a test but I don't.

Texas, they are using stick on weights. Clip on won't work with these aftermarket rims. That link is interesting, I didn't know about match mating and I doubt they paid any attention to that.

96 12 valve club cab lwb 2500 2wd 250k 3.55 gears, 265/75-r16, OFV at 30, no plate, AFC full fwd, HX35 at 35 psi boost, Timing~16.5, 5x11s, 2790 BHAF, Banks hi-flo muffler, 3.5" exhaust, Deleted prefilter & heater, mildly built 47re, billet single TC. KDPF
Cheeze is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Cheeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 228
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I took it to the other shop today and they re-balanced and said it was good. I paid them and left, and it was shaking just as before. The shop owner said it was torque converter shudder, then that it was my shocks. I put some new shocks on, no change. I got my hands on another wheel to test with. The first place I put it is where the damaged rim is. Problem gone. They ruined my rim, they are no longer available, and I bet I'm going to have a hard time getting them to pay for a new set.

96 12 valve club cab lwb 2500 2wd 250k 3.55 gears, 265/75-r16, OFV at 30, no plate, AFC full fwd, HX35 at 35 psi boost, Timing~16.5, 5x11s, 2790 BHAF, Banks hi-flo muffler, 3.5" exhaust, Deleted prefilter & heater, mildly built 47re, billet single TC. KDPF
Cheeze is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome