46RH is dead taking the long way to a allison 100 6 speed - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
89-93 Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine , Transmission Ect...NO ADVERTISING

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allison 1000 6 speed w/ controller 0 0%
68RFE w/ controler 0 0%
47rh +OD brownie 0 0%
4L80 +OD brownie 0 0%
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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46RH is dead taking the long way to an Allison 1000 6 speed

I am in the process of installing an Allison 545 in my 1st gen dodge 91.5(June) , as an emergency measure , 46rh wet the bed .
symptoms / sound say a planetary broke with just more air on stock fuel said the trans shop.
I know that the 545 is non lockup (nether is the 46RH) but don't care its happening. The 545 will get the truck back to Montana from Taxes , and the boss said if you are crazy enough to try there it is . Geter dun you crazy #$%@.

doner info:
97 ish Freightliner MT45(striped chassi cab forward control) 5.9l p-pump has #1 and #2 pistons melted from a blown water pump bearing was the best looking corpse in the bone yard. SAE bellhousing mid / front mount (trans hangs off the mid mount/ bellhousing/ adaptor

receiver:
91.5 IC long time small budget build 350 K+
Hx35W/12 trans made it 2.5 weeks after swap (stock fuel) it was tired
2nd gen IC / mt45 IC set up as dubble pass , up grade in the pipe sending smoke signals saying Im next after the 12 probe EGT/ k temp temp gages, and now the trans .
p-pump after 1-3 more play days at Bonneville World of speed to find the stock fuel standing mile speed limit, for proof of concept testing on my canopy design. with stock gears 2500RPM =87.14 at the trap 1 mile full governor(45HP) by 1/3 mi long road bonneville goals 40mpg useable pickup

I plan to install a Allison 1000 6 speed . When the funding finishes coming in, halfway there now I can get the controller ($1100Transmission Tuner Allison Swap) or a 4-500HP 6 speed but not both as of now . + trans about $3-8k built to handle a maxed out streetable p-pump(conversion parts are already being sourced. only need a dodge style IP)
I may have access to an Allison 1000 5 speed core? function unknown, may be.
-------------
if you think this is a bad idea:

no OD and no lockup are not acceptable reasons TQ limit of 445 TQ.on stock air / fuel maxes out the 46RH's 400TQ as per the dyno at PDD in citer City, UT El.6,000'.
----------
pros
was already planning a swap. for lock up and 2 OD+ 1 more OD brownie, or single OD lock up w/ 1 OD brownie.
stronger than a wrecking yard uinic on its last leg.
cheep (so far 240 for a starter and my all spare time) ready to go in now vs weeks to build,ship and program then start the install.
can fit 36"tires for rubber gear 75.35 mph. at 100%power transfer (not going to happen).
gets all the hard parts out of the way for the planed 6 speed swap
moore gears between 1st and direct.
a direct box has less parasitic loss than an OD box.
I have 2 US Gear .20 Under drives in montana to compensate for the tall gears, rubber or in the diff( with each box shifted up to direct the parasitic losses are reduced freeing power and reducing load)
possible rules limit( #1 injector must be forward of the ball joints line) motor set back for better weight distribution and take some stress off the front under built D-250 suspension.


cons
stock 31.7" tires 65.01 MPH @2500RPM.
can handle only marginal power increase.
regear with a Gear Tech 1 ton Quick Change based on a winters Extreme Liner Quick Change (3.08:1 version instead of 2.0:1) full tow capable, rear end change is needed sooner than later
floor mods.
posable van dog house instead of a custom center console to go with the bucket sears (pro van dog house has cup holders)
~ $2-300 for driveline mods twice.
-------

Dammit Dave I can't do that , that means you can't but I did.
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
Gumby Stay Flexible .


91.5(June) D250, H1C/16 now HX35W/12,HVLP piston LP ,3.55 auto 518 dead
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, 350k ish odo fail;Gages boost 17psi now 20 @below grid, egt( 125ms response probe), and COOLent
Aero Tonto 24-29.3mpg. @ 22 somethings broke.

Last edited by Gumby79; 02-26-2019 at 12:40 AM. Reason: wasn't finished . hit enter in title bar
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 12:39 AM
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Well I have to say this is a bit of a confusing post....very chaotic, not sure what is being asked?

1984/93 Dodge Crewcab, W350, 1 Ton SRW, long box, 350K Km's, hydroboost, 366 spring, fuel pin to deep side, 14cm housing, Piston LP, PS IC, Isspro Boost, Pyro and tach, NV4500, 29 spline NP205, 3.54's.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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pros and cons of my course of action to an end goal of an Allison 6 speed .
there is 2 camps.
1) don't therad jack
2)don't start a new
there are many threads that only say its a bad idea to consider a 545 because it's not a lockup (moot, as is stock) or overdrive (moot with proper gearing). both of these reasons are invalid with my case its still better than walking home 1800mi when the work in Tx is over end of March.. looking for other problems and advice.

91.5(June) D250, H1C/16 now HX35W/12,HVLP piston LP ,3.55 auto 518 dead
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, 350k ish odo fail;Gages boost 17psi now 20 @below grid, egt( 125ms response probe), and COOLent
Aero Tonto 24-29.3mpg. @ 22 somethings broke.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 01:49 AM
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Having had an Allison 1000 behind my first gen Cummins, I will give you this simple advice. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Do not jump into this half ed.
If you have all the parts you need, and you get all your electronics wired correctly, the Allison swap is great. If not, it will be a nightmare from the beginning until you rip it out later in frustration.
Be aware that you will need to fabricate a new transmission crossmember, build custom shifter linkage, and have your driveshaft length changed.

92 D250 - Totaled
89 F250 - Fummins project in progress
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
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Funky Hunk
did you have to mod the floor to fit the 1000?
-----
shifter? check. I have both 4 and 5 speed freightliner cable shift units. pulse I can mod the stock gate in the collom to match the allison pattern.

wiring ? trans mission tuner from Montana Allison 6-speed Swap link is advertising a plug and play computer w premade harness for 1st -current gen to 6 speed Allison transmission conversion
Quote:
For non-electronic engines, no other aftermarket mystery modules, custom valve-bodies, or a bunch of sensors are required for fully automatic 6-speed operation- just the right Allison TCM with the correct program, wire harness, and throttle position sensor. If you have a 12 valve Cummins, you may be able to use the original style Throttle Position Sensor, however the Allison® TPS is much more durable
I'll be calling him soon.

cross member ? check. I will be building a custom Allison 545 rear top mount to work around the d-line park brake, debating whether to keep the mid mount for added chassis stiffness (3 mount system normal motor mounts +a plate bolted between the trans and block mounted to the frame + trans mount on tail shaft housing we used these systems on our dirt track street stock, modified , and late model classes) or delete the mid .

Driveline ? to be ordered . Simple measure twice order once per trans, did this with my old 79 K-20 chevy changing from NP203 to NP205 and many of the race cars.

adaptor/bell is a SAE #2 or#3 I have to measure to confirm. so the 2nd install(1000) has the same SAE bell requirement just duse not use the spacer as the torque converter takes up the extra space with the lock up clutches

91.5(June) D250, H1C/16 now HX35W/12,HVLP piston LP ,3.55 auto 518 dead
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, 350k ish odo fail;Gages boost 17psi now 20 @below grid, egt( 125ms response probe), and COOLent
Aero Tonto 24-29.3mpg. @ 22 somethings broke.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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Allison 5/6 speed controller and progress report

I called Jason at Transmission Tuner over in Killispell, Mt today. The $1100(included in estimate is $300 tord tuning $40/ HR) is a tested wire harness and controller for OBD trucks. I was quoted $2300 for a First Gen Kit . $3xx.xx of that is for a GM TPS, you can sorce yourself for cheaper as well he said and states on his his web sight some have been successful in using there stock TPS( stock auto) some have had to notch the holes to achieve 0.55 volts at idle position to work. An Allison with a input shaft speed sensor is required . Theas come with the Quick Tuner EFI Live as a interface. you can opt out of the EFI Live if you already have access to one , or roll the dice that he gets it close enough with his experience on the first try. Retune is as simple as sending a data log file over Email and tell him what you want, can be up to 1-3 days to get an update . This unit is even able to be user adjustable, add laptop.
$2300 sounds reasonable. $1100 for 1 tune ,computer, and harness.

----
I verified the SAE2 adaptor / bell 17.652"OD from the 545 fits on the 1000/5 ,and finished removing the the rest of the trans system lines, filter, cooler, bell, mounts .
tomorrow, I'll start pulling the RH46

-----
Do you think the stock liquid to liquid trans heat exchanger and air to liquid will be adequate to keep the fluid happy with the sloppy torque converter ? In the 33k lbs bus crowd bus, trans overheat due to TC slip especially in the mountains seems to be the biggest complaint next to lack of final gear ratio
my motor will appreciate the extra warmth, used to runs 165-175F summer 140-160F winter 95% blocked with a 5x7" hole in the center of the rad to keep the fan from running all the time. cummins recommends at least 144 sq in (12x12). running 144" and 150-155F is all I can manage in Montana winters. drops to 137F at the bottom of one 12mi 6-7% grade.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 03:08 AM Thread Starter
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Allison 5/6 speed controller and progress report

I called Jason at Transmission Tuner over in kalispell, Mt today. The $1100. (included in estimate is $300 tord tuning $40/ HR if needed) is a tested wire harness and controller for OBD trucks. I was quoted $2300 for a First Gen Kit . $3xx.xx of that is for a GM TPS, you can sorce yourself for cheaper as well he said and states on his his web sight some have been successful in using there stock TPS( stock auto) some have had to notch the holes to achieve 0.55 volts at idle position to work. An Allison with a input shaft speed sensor is required . Theas come with the Quick Tuner EFI Live as a interface. you can opt out of the EFI Live if you already have access to one , or roll the dice that he gets it close enough with his experience on the first try. Retune is as simple as sending a data log file over Email and tell him what you want, can be up to 1-3 days to get an update . This unit is even able to be user adjustable, add laptop.
$2300 sounds reasonable. $1100 for 1 tune ,computer, and harness.

----
I verified the SAE2 adaptor / bell 17.652"OD from the 545 fits on the 1000/5.
Finished removing the the rest of the trans system lines, filter, cooler, bell, mounts .
picked up the starter from napa.
Tomorrow, I'll start pulling the RH46

-----
Do you think the stock liquid to liquid trans heat exchanger and air to liquid will be adequate to keep the fluid happy with the sloppy torque converter ? In the 33k lbs bus crowd bus, trans overheat due to TC slip especially in the mountains seems to be the biggest complaint next to lack of final gear ratio
my motor will appreciate the extra warmth, used to runs 165-175F summer 140-160F winter 95% blocked with a 5x7" hole in the center of the rad to keep the fan from running all the time. cummins recommends at least 144 sq in (12x12). running 144" and 150-155F is all I can manage in Montana winters. drops to 137F at the bottom of one 12mi 6-7% grade.

91.5(June) D250, H1C/16 now HX35W/12,HVLP piston LP ,3.55 auto 518 dead
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, 350k ish odo fail;Gages boost 17psi now 20 @below grid, egt( 125ms response probe), and COOLent
Aero Tonto 24-29.3mpg. @ 22 somethings broke.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 01:32 AM
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If it was me I'de go 47rh Route and having the Lock up is like a extra gear .I won't build a Truck with anything But a 47rh Trans no need for a Brownie Box .

Newest toy 2017 VW Golf Altrack TSI Sold 2013 Durango bit the dust 9-04-14
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RIP Speedy the 67 vw died a very hot Death 5-17-2010 New toy 1985 crewcab longbed 4x4 conversion with a 93 cummin's and built 47rh with compushift mini controlled auto sxe62/70 turbo 6x13 injector's full 4 in Diamond Eye Exhaust ,366 spring and THD fuel pin .along with Boost and Pyro gauges and Tach .
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Well changed horses mid stream.46RH is dead taking the long way to a allison 100 6 speed-20190315_140324_1554879168800.jpg 545 is out the SAE# 2 would require a 3-5" body lift +custom trans tunnle to clear the heater ductwork. 46RH is dead taking the long way to a allison 100 6 speed-20190323_210346_1554877941989.jpg 46RH is dead taking the long way to a allison 100 6 speed-3-cotesof-valspar-implement-paint-ford-grey-color-_1554879233709.jpg
Took the 3rd generation Allison into Hulon Fox Transmissions Service in Dallas to have it tested on there trans Dyno and found it had water damage from missing sensors and rain causing determination of the clutches. They took my 3rd generation unit in as core. And put together a Built 4th gen 6sp. With GM bell and non driveline brake /rear mount tail housing 3 disk TC alto red G3 clutches( 3extra per pack).

I got the adaptor/ motor plate and flexplate from CA Conversations $1495

Driveshaft w/1410 rear, stock tube 1480 fixed yoke built $420

4th gen controler with tap shift and wire harness CAC $2500
New napa ford 6.0l gear reduction starter $225.

Modified and relocated stock crossmember .
Finishing the wiring now.
---
Dose any one know if the stock tcm controls anything other than the old trans?

91.5(June) D250, H1C/16 now HX35W/12,HVLP piston LP ,3.55 auto 518 dead
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, 350k ish odo fail;Gages boost 17psi now 20 @below grid, egt( 125ms response probe), and COOLent
Aero Tonto 24-29.3mpg. @ 22 somethings broke.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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The task is complete.
more to follow at a later date

91.5(June) D250, H1C/16 now HX35W/12,HVLP piston LP ,3.55 auto 518 dead
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, 350k ish odo fail;Gages boost 17psi now 20 @below grid, egt( 125ms response probe), and COOLent
Aero Tonto 24-29.3mpg. @ 22 somethings broke.
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