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Looking for a toy....

49K views 836 replies 25 participants last post by  sdeeter19555 
#1 ·
Since there isn't a generic 1st gen section, I posted here...move if inappropriate.

After a eight year break, I'm back in the market for a Cummins, and I decided I want a 1st gen truck. This is a toy, will be a (sometimes) daily driver, haul the occasional load of firewood, and mostly just something to cruise around in...

Now I'm not new to Cummins or Dodge, I've owned a 95 12 valve, two 99 24 valves, and my last truck was a 04.5 600. The 3rd gen was the only one I ever really mod'd (well north of $10k worth, and hardly any of that was engine mods). Traded the 04.5 on a 2012 Silverado 2500hd gasser and have never really looked back...the 04.5 really soured me on any newer Dodge with it's ball joint and steering quirks, injector issues, finicky nv5600, etc.

Recently sold my 1953 M37 that I knew I would never get around to restoring, and decided I could handle working on a truck that was already running and driving. I've got my eye on a 1990 w250 std cab that is mostly stock and has about 160k miles. Owner claims the engine has never been touched short oil changes and filters. It is an auto, which wasn't my first choice (but it is a toy). The truck looks solid from photos I've seen, it looks to have a 4 inch lift and 35s?

What do I need to watch for on these years?

I want to remember that cab supports and rockers are typical rust spots, also the drivers floor at the right heel is a prone spot for rust, any other hidden spots. And I want to remember the top of the windshield is prone to rust?

What can I expect to need servicing on the engine? Do the injectors, lift pump, injection pump cause issues at that mileage?

The current owner said it has 3.55 rears, I thought all the 727 trucks had 3.08 in the D61/D71?

And because I can't find any definite info, what is the towing capabilities of a 727/3.08 truck?

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#2 ·
The drip edge across the front of the cab is prone to rusting out, frame crack at gear box is sometimes common.

It should have 3.08 gears unless it was special order or changed. 1991.5 was when they put OD on the trans and then different gears.

It has a LP style that can leak diesel into crankcase when it starts to go bad.

160,000 is very low miles and the IP and injectors should be ok. The IP could have some O rings maybe getting bad for the age if it never had extra lube added to the fuel.
 
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#4 ·
No overdrive, won't handle alot of power. You'll have to keep the 3.08's if you want to drive over about 50 MPH.
 
#5 ·
I don't need a lot of power, just reliability...I have a newer truck if I want to tow heavy.

Do these 727 setups have a stand alone air/ATF cooler and a coolant/ATF cooler like the later trucks do?



I'm pretty sure I'm getting this truck, as long as it is in as good of shape as the photos and no major issues, should be a slam dunk.

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#6 ·
I'm pretty sure they do have the water to oil cooler, not sure about one up in front. A few members have put in 47rh's and really like them.
 
#7 ·
I saw that the 47rh was an upgrade, maybe down the road...again, the main intent with this truck is something to drive around, not really work all that hard. I would probably go with a manual if I was to swap.



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#8 ·
Now, when you say 3.55s could have been special ordered, does that mean they were an option? I thought I remembered that d61s were difficult to regear to anything numerically higher than 3.08? If factory with 3.55s, that would make those axles d60 and d70?

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#10 ·
Well....

That was a bust...frame-perfect (has less rust than my 2012 Silverado that I oil undercoat), body-solid but beat with an ugly stick (body was cracked in places, dents, repainted from white to gray, wiring was atrocious, slight amount of surface rust above windshield), battery was DOA so no engine or trans report. Looked decent...stated 180k...

Ran a carfax...last mileage report was 341k in 2009. At 10k per year to today, that would mean it has at least 441k...far from 180k. Adding 180k on the odo to the reported 341k, well...

Had a Happi-Jack camper takedown system and HD receiver hitch, Wifey wondered if it was a camper transport...hmmm?

Back to the hunt...

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#11 ·
Well, not so fast...

Told the seller I wasn't interested with those miles at his asking price and he said he would negotiate. I gave him a realistic price in the current condition and he countered only slightly off my number. At that number, if it runs and drives good, it'll be mine.

I still can't believe how clean (of rust) the body and frame are, especially for those miles. Mechanical issues I can handle...

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#12 ·
Ok, took this truck for a drive...

Engine is fairly smooth idling...started up with no smoke, at idle it has just a slight bit of roughness. On a slow test drive, it is smooth and has lots of power. The power screw still has its top hat installed, so I don't think it was ever touched.

Transmission shifted fine through the gears, seemed more responsive than I remember the 727s being behind a Cummins, not that I hot rodded it. It definitely has D61/D71 axles, he said it would run 85mph...not happening with 3.55s.

The bad (or good)...it's on worn out 35s AND the lift is all blocks...stacked blocks out back, single block up front. I'm fairly certain PA will not pass with blocks up front. They also welded blocks the rear bumpstops to make up for the lift. So I have two choices: pull the blocks, sell the 35s, buy regular rims/tires OR buy front lift springs and rear blocks, and keep it on 35s.

It was also hard to diagnose any issues because of the mud tire lug thump and hum, but I nothing screamed issue to me...I also forgot how harsh the 1st gens shut off...

It needs a lot of TLC, the gear shift selector deal doesn't show the current gear, the ABS/Brake lights are on (what to check first), trim is shot, wiring is a mess. The body panels all need aligned.

Otherwise, the frame is immaculate, the steering box has a brace already, has a bergeson shaft, new front driveshaft, new joints, new exhaust, new shocks, new brakes (rotors, drums, shoes, pads, hardware)...

In the end, I gave him a deposit, go swap the title tomorrow afternoon and have it roll bedded home (it's about 75 miles, not willing to trust its maiden voyage that far). Its a solid start...

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#16 · (Edited)
..... and have it roll bedded home (it's about 75 miles, not willing to trust its maiden voyage that far). Its a solid start...
reminds me when i bought my 1st, 1st gen... flew out to l.a. and drove it back to texas with only seeing pics and confirming it had 150k miles on it..

loved that truck. i know you'll enjoy yours :grin2:
 
#13 ·
Well, deal is done...AAA left me down and had it towed to their towing company's garage for delivery at the house tomorrow...the rain tonight caused the towing company to be "busy", sounded like he didn't want to make the hour drive to me when he called. Oh, well...it will be here tomorrow.

363k on the chassis and 180k on engine...don't get me wrong, it needs work but it is a solid for me to start with...

I'm now seeing it needs some electrical work (wait to start light doesn't come on), wiring is a mess, seems to have a power draw somewhere...nothing I can't sort out.

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#14 ·
Was it cold enough for the WTS ( gridheater ) if not then it won't come on.
 
#21 ·
I almost think the heaters were on when I started it last night, I almost thought it wasn't going to roll over, but it did and fired right up. It was probably 80 degrees outside...

Either that or it has one serious power draw somewhere...the battery was brand spanky new as of Sunday.

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#22 ·
Well, it's in the driveway!

Need to finish the day out for work, then assess issues tonight. I think I need to un-wire all the stuff and then start over.

The brakes are wierd...I'm almost wondering if they failed to adjust the push rod when a new master cylinder was installed?

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#23 ·
The brakes are wierd...I'm almost wondering if they failed to adjust the push rod when a new master cylinder was installed?

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Could be that or a defective booster and/or master. Also if you bleed the brakes you have to bleed the abs valve, it is above the rear axle in the framerail. If that valve has an air pocket all sorts of weird things can happen.
 
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#24 ·
Well, here it is...again, not pretty but the body has almost zero rust. I even ended up with a freebie Gerber multitool under the battery tray.

I noticed that a wire is disconnected (see photo), I think that goes to the IP?? Yes/no?

I also noted that it is missing brackets for the injector lines, so I will need to source those.

The throttle has been changed to the inner hole, but the smoke screw seems untouched (the factory sealant is still un disturbed, it doesn't appear to have ever had a cap) and the hat is still on the power screw. I'll pull the AFC apart at some point and see if that was flipped around.

And he handed me a steering gearbox, I just realized it's new in the box...

Again, it's going to need a serious de-wiring...I'm amazed, all the lights work and it starts and runs fine. There is a splice in the wiring for the fuel heater and the wax choke deal that needs pulled apart, reran, soldered, and heat shrank...among other wiring.


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#25 ·
Well, the daughter and I pulled about 50 feet of wiring that went from nowhere to nowhere, removed the radio because it was a mess, redid the hood release (the inside cable is shot, so it has a outside release), pulled the spare tire carrier out, removed an old alarm, etc...

Determined only about three hangers are holding the exhaust on, so I'm going to add some hangers...

Figure this one out, the ABS and brake lights are now out! We removed the spare tire carrier, and that one bolt seemed awful tight to the ABS module wiring, that's the only thing I can imagine fixed that...

And it still starts, runs, and drives!

Tomorrow will be wiring improvements (soldering stuff, heat shrink, etc.)...

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#26 ·
I've seen alot worse looking trucks. Don't know if you know this or not but the non-ic'd trucks have to have power to the KSB all the time when the truck is running.
 
#31 ·
You have to have 50 posts in order to have access to the classifieds, there are only 3 items for sale in it right now for 1 st Gens and 2 are mine.
 
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#29 ·
Get the vin and run a build sheet from the dealer or maybe on line if available. It will tell you everything factory. I think they can still do that old.
 
#38 ·
So I need an airbox to replace the damaged one...looks like a dry synthetic filter (AFE?). Want to go back to stock...

Have a cowbell and a set of glow shift gauges (trans temp and boost) and a pillar mount that will be up for sale...

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#39 ·
I will also have an MBPR 4 to 5 tip for sale, I don't like oversized tips on exhaust.

I also remembered that I will need to source an oil pan for the engine, i think they say it on the ground when they changed it out, so the sump is pushed up (inverted) slightly. It will need a gasket, so swap the pan at the same time.



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#41 ·
Well, I did some cleaning of the wiring...redid the wiring for the fuel heater and FSS with solder and heat shrink. Hooked up the wire to the KSB after I determined it had voltage with the ignition.

Moved to the alternator, secured that wiring better. They have installed a stand-alone voltage regulator...they cut a flat trailer connector apart to make the flipping connector! I ordered the actual connector for the regulator, plan to redo that wiring this weekend.

I pulled the temp sending unit for those aftermarket gauges and installed a plug...still got to do that for the boost tubing.

Tomorrow I'm expecting a delivery from Summit. Bunch of exhaust hangers and clamps and split loom. Ordered transmission mounts tonight, mine are like goo? If that split loom comes in, I'll spend an evening covering all the wiring...they took most of it off for some reason.

I then added bolts to the rear bumper supports, need to get a couple short 1/2" bolts for the frame mounts.

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