Control arm re-location brackets or longer control arms? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Control arm re-location brackets or longer control arms?

2012 2500 4x4 Mega cab w/ 3" leveling kit

The front axle is pulled back towards the cab, the previous owner left the stock control arms on it after adding the leveling kit.

Should I use control arm relocation brackets to correct the high angles on the control arms?
Or a set of longer control arms?

Or do I need both?

I'm just trying to do this the right way the first time, the truck rides pretty harsh on rough bumps and I plan on driving it everyday



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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 10:42 AM
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Just get longer control arms and that returns the truck to stock geometry


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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 11:52 AM
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1/2" longer arms arent going to make it ride better. Get rid of the leveling spacers and put in a nice set of Thuren or Carli springs and shocks if you want a better ride.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 01:40 PM
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Don't forget the adjustable track bar...to bring the axle back to center, left to right!

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 01:43 PM
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I have Carli control arms, Hell Bent Steel 2" spacers, BD Diesel adjustable track bar, Bilstein 5100s, and stock springs...I don't notice any harsher ride than stock.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 04:38 PM
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When you start working under the truck, you'll see that dropped radius arm brackets would be a real impediment to moving around under there, given only a 2" to 3" front lift. That's reason #1.

When you use stock radius arms and jack up the front suspension 3", you've lost any ability to increase positive caster to slightly above stock settings. You may even be running neutral or slightly negative caster now. That means -- given any other troublesome assembly tolerance error or weakness -- you see death wobble, you lose the easiest way to mitigate it while you find and fix the real problem. And that's to say nothing of the self-centering steering feel you might not have right now. The good aftermarket suspension builders say that the stock arms give you enough caster adjustment for 2" to 2-1/2". You've got 3" now. Problem! That's reason #2.

The radius arm roots anchor the front axle. Every hit, every bump, every pot hole... all that impact goes directly into the radius arm roots. Do you really want to handle all of that load and wear and tear with a set of bent plate bolt-ons that either weaken the chassis with welding, transfer the load with bolts, or need additional holes drilled into the frame? More potential points of failure are bad. That's reason #3.

The small lift suspension builders who claim to have the best engineered solution -- AEV -- move the axle forward an additional 1", not back, not even back to the stock wheelbase, as part of their system. Moving the axle back decreases clearances and stability in general. That's reason #4.

The Carli 3" drop arms look pretty massive. I have the 3" BDS arms, which are unique looking and very robust, and probably a whole lot lighter than the Carlis. Had I known I was going to end up with a lift comprised of various parts rather than one manufacturer's kit, I might have started with the Carli arms. Not sure. The BDS arms will save you the better part of four figures over the Carlis.... but might not support an impact load center of the span from below as well as the Carlis, if you high center onto them.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricPeterson View Post
When you start working under the truck, you'll see that dropped radius arm brackets would be a real impediment to moving around under there, given only a 2" to 3" front lift. That's reason #1.

When you use stock radius arms and jack up the front suspension 3", you've lost any ability to increase positive caster to slightly above stock settings. You may even be running neutral or slightly negative caster now. That means -- given any other troublesome assembly tolerance error or weakness -- you see death wobble, you lose the easiest way to mitigate it while you find and fix the real problem. And that's to say nothing of the self-centering steering feel you might not have right now. The good aftermarket suspension builders say that the stock arms give you enough caster adjustment for 2" to 2-1/2". You've got 3" now. Problem! That's reason #2.

The radius arm roots anchor the front axle. Every hit, every bump, every pot hole... all that impact goes directly into the radius arm roots. Do you really want to handle all of that load and wear and tear with a set of bent plate bolt-ons that either weaken the chassis with welding, transfer the load with bolts, or need additional holes drilled into the frame? More potential points of failure are bad. That's reason #3.

The small lift suspension builders who claim to have the best engineered solution -- AEV -- move the axle forward an additional 1", not back, not even back to the stock wheelbase, as part of their system. Moving the axle back decreases clearances and stability in general. That's reason #4.

The Carli 3" drop arms look pretty massive. I have the 3" BDS arms, which are unique looking and very robust, and probably a whole lot lighter than the Carlis. Had I known I was going to end up with a lift comprised of various parts rather than one manufacturer's kit, I might have started with the Carli arms. Not sure. The BDS arms will save you the better part of four figures over the Carlis.... but might not support an impact load center of the span from below as well as the Carlis, if you high center onto them.

JMHOs!
He said his is 2012....control arms, not radius arms.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMconvert View Post
He said his is 2012....control arms, not radius arms.

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Stupid me. Thank you. I just saw "4th gen powertrain". The same arguments apply about additional points of failure, under truck access, and moving the axle rearward, but of course he already noted that, but OPs caster is not an issue. For a 4-link, the stresses placed on bushings are bigger than they need to be for larger lifts, too, and that tends to affect wear and tear, geometry, and stability.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cumminthanstrockin View Post
Just get longer control arms and that returns the truck to stock geometry
Except that they'll still be at steeper angles, which isn't exactly stock, right?

Maybe if we start telling people that the brain is an app, they will start using it?

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy N. View Post
Except that they'll still be at steeper angles, which isn't exactly stock, right?


Minimal changes, so yeah but itíll be as close as possible after modifications. The only way to truly return to exact measurements is by moving the control arm locations


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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone, I was debating putting this thread in the 2010-2012 general discussion but I figured it was a 4th gen and this forum might get more attention. I had no idea of the control arms for 2012 and down, and radius arms from 2013 and up.

Currently I have the drop bracket for the track bar installed with a new OEM track bar, drop pitman arm, steering gearbox brace, 3" coil spring spacers, dual steering stabilizer. The axle seems to be centered evenly (left to right) but I haven't really measured anything to be sure.

I heard the ride of the truck will be better if the control arms are laying as close to horizontal as possible, when they are on a high angle like mine they transfer more of the bumps impact straight up/back into the frame. Does this make sense?

That's why I ask if I should do the relocation kit, then add the longer control arms at that time
I'm also debating just putting a long arm kit on it, even though it's a little over kill, I think that may be the best option in order to get my control arms to be as horizontal as possible


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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 02:10 PM
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I would just use longer Carli or Thuren control arms.

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