EFI Live vs MCC Can someone explain? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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EFI Live vs MCC Can someone explain?

I have been reading so many threads on EFI my head is swimming. I guess I need to be educated on EFI Live, kindergarten style.

I have been running my Mini with MCC and LOVE IT! Now, I have read a lot of threads about EFI live coming for 4th gens and how everyone is so excited about it etc...... So my real question is this, and I apologize for my ignorance in advance. But what is the advantage of EFI Live over MCC? I don't completely understand the excitement. I am still a bit of a newbie to the diesel performance world of today, my last diesel truck before this one was a 96 ford with a 7.3........

From what I understand is that EFI live is only the software, and it is still up to the individual tuner to create the tuning. That being said, is EFI that much more flexible than MCC? For example, one issue with MCC is that your timing is the same across all 4 tunes in the truck, which really limits the effectiveness of the mileage vs performance correct? Does EFI resolve that?

Why is CSP5 so difficult to bring to market (if that is even the case)? If EFI is that much better, I would really want to be able to switch between tunes similar to my Mini. So would all the tunes be completely independent? From what I have seen you can tune the transmission with EFI, right? So if you can, you would have a dedicated transmission tune for each performance tune (based on the individual behind the deyboard)- Am I on the right path there?

What is Data Logging, and why don't/can't you do that with MCC?

Again I apologize for my ignorance but I am not understanding something, and it is driving me crazy. If the big name tuners are this excited over the release of EFI there has to be something to it- I just don't get it......


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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saz View Post
From what I understand is that EFI live is only the software, and it is still up to the individual tuner to create the tuning. That being said, is EFI that much more flexible than MCC? For example, one issue with MCC is that your timing is the same across all 4 tunes in the truck, which really limits the effectiveness of the mileage vs performance correct? Does EFI resolve that?
Correct. EFI Live is just the software to tune. No actual tunes are included unless you purchase an AutoCAL from a vendor. As far as timing changing when switching tunes with EFI, that remains to be seen. I'd gather that they'll do their best to incorporate timing changes with the tune change, but it's still in development at this point.

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Originally Posted by Saz View Post
Why is CSP5 so difficult to bring to market (if that is even the case)? If EFI is that much better, I would really want to be able to switch between tunes similar to my Mini. So would all the tunes be completely independent? From what I have seen you can tune the transmission with EFI, right? So if you can, you would have a dedicated transmission tune for each performance tune (based on the individual behind the deyboard)- Am I on the right path there?
CSP5 difficult to bring to market? Everything in software development takes time. Especially, when you're having to work within the constraints of hardware that you didn't have a hand in choosing. They'll only have so much memory space available to incorporate changes with CSP5. Different transmission tunes may or may not be a part of that switchable option depending on how much memory space they have to work with.

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What is Data Logging, and why don't/can't you do that with MCC?
Exactly what it sounds like. You hook up the computer and start logging the data that the sensors are sending to the ECM. Why you can't log data with MCC? H&S never developed the logging side of MCC, unfortunately.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 07:52 PM
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Plain and simple. EFI will/already is accel-ing at where h&s stopped in the features and mapping.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 08:39 PM
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Some non-tuning product differences are:

EFILive isn't a 1 device to 1 truck tuning scenario. FlashScan V2 can tune up to 221 vehicles per device, and ships with 2 VIN licenses to tune 2 supported vehicles straight out of the box. Tune 2 vehicles, effectively your investment per truck halves. Tune 10 vehicles and your unit cost comes out at under $200 per truck.

AutoCal is effectively blank hardware EFILive sells to tuners to then onsell to end users. It's designed for people who want custom tuning, but don't want to tune themselves. It means great tuners who don't have the time to develop and support their own hardware solutions can use ours. AutoCal also supports multi vehicle licensing, allowing up to 8 vehicles to be tuned per device.

Data logging is the big difference between the 2 products. EFILive offers the ability to log vehicle parameters and play them back (and overlay them over the tune file) so you can make refinements to your tune based on ACTUAL data not SOTP measurements. That said, the factory provided logging parameters are terrible, so we are creating our own, user friendly, high speed and parameter critical logging capability.

Some tuning based differences include:

EFILive is custom tuning software, it's not a tune, nor a baseline to begin custom tuning. It requires the user or the tuner to start from scratch to generate an outcome. (That said, many tuners have a base library of files that they use to fulfill customers needs, and then custom tune from there)

Our first software release for the 2010-12 Cummins delivered a baseline where same tuner, same truck, different software delivered on average 40HP gains. This was repeated by a number of beta testers in a variety of locations.

Regarding your question on CSP5. CSP5 is EFILive's custom operating system. Effectively we create our own operating system independent of the factory provided operating systems. These are extremely complex given we need to emulate the flash process to install the tune into your vehicle and given you're no longer running based software. And, then there is the small issue that Cummins keeps changing their methods and controllers, so it's not an easy 'port' from one platform to the next.

Good development and good testing take time. The programming aspect for CSP for 2010-15 has already been 8 weeks and we still don't have anything to share, other than we've flashed a truck to demonstrate our proof of concept.

EFILive plans to deliver a number of enhancements this year for these platforms. We expect to double our parameter offering, deliver CSP and EDA logging along with adding transmission tuning. What others plan on delivering to enhance their products is a question for them to answer.

Cheers
Cindy
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 08:49 PM
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There is also the fact that efi still supports there products.Just sayin

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 10:03 AM
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If you purchase an autocal can it tune duramax and cummins?

2012 2500 6.7 4X4 Debadged, Sim delete with 4" AFE TBE, Edge Evo CTS on Lvl 3.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeperbrad View Post
If you purchase an autocal can it tune duramax and cummins?
AutoCal is capable of tuning both Duramax and Cummins on the one device. It's capable of tuning any 8 supported vehicles; so anything from a 1.2L GM Spark through to a 6.0L GM gas vehicle as well as Duramax and Cummins.

The restriction with AutoCal is that the person who provides the tunes needs to have FlashScan V2 to create the tunes, and the appropriate tuning license to tune both makes of vehicle (the GM Tuning Option and the Cummins Tuning Option).

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 08:02 PM
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Oh ok...Thanks.

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