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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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death wobble

2013 ram 2500 CCSB g56 4x4 with 111xxx miles. I have a carli commuter with all the options, new steering box, synergy tierod and sttering, new ball joints installed just the other week. I am running 285/70/17 tires. on my trip home from vacation today i had death wobble 3 times when hitting the transition from highway to bridges in West Virginia at 75 mph. Everything is new upfront and I have had 2 different shops look at it. what could still be causing this. the tires are an off brand, could they be the cause of it just not being a good tire? i want new wheels and Toyo tires but that requires some saving.


2013 Ram 2500 CCSB 4x4 G56, full delete, CTT EFILive 5 position switch, Green, Carli Commuter 2.0, Torsion sway bar, Fox 2.0 shocks, rear add a pack, synergy steering linkage, Readhead steering gears steering box
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 05:34 PM
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Do you a single steering stabilizer? I went with a dual and love it
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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yes its just a single. but what is causing the death wobble? I'm not looking for a bandaid. I want to fix the issue

2013 Ram 2500 CCSB 4x4 G56, full delete, CTT EFILive 5 position switch, Green, Carli Commuter 2.0, Torsion sway bar, Fox 2.0 shocks, rear add a pack, synergy steering linkage, Readhead steering gears steering box
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:22 PM
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There was another thread very recently, and the off brand tires were the culprit to the surprise of a number of members. Inadequate sidewall stiffness. Some of us having experienced other totally crazy instabilities in off brand tires were less surprised.

Check your caster settings. Make sure your cams are symmetrical side to side and that you're running spec or more positive caster. Set in near zero toe. Make sure your tires are pressurized properly.

The single biggest thing you can do to increase the stiffness of your steering linkage -- assuming there are no real problems -- is to mount up a steering box stabilizer. The mechanical slack that allows DW has to come from somewhere, and our steering boxes aren't very rigidly mounted. With your Carli torsion anti-sway, your choices are more limited. A Synergy works. Others too... but I can't remember which ones. A Rough Country won't work with the torsion anti-sway.

Make sure your tie rod and drag link rod ends are solid. The aftermarket parts are robust but they can go bad.

Make sure you don't have a lot of slop in your steering box.

Make sure your steering box mounting bolts are tight.

Bearings bad enough to allow DW should cause other symptoms. Your ball joints are new.

Steering tie rod stabilizers -- the viscous shocks between axle and tie rod or drag link -- will damp and mitigate a tendency towards DW, but can't eliminate it if you've got it and won't cause it by failing if you don't. Bad steering stabilizers will not be a failure mode or cause of DW; they can only help to hide it if something else is causing it.

The instability is caused by bad geometry -- bad toe, bad caster, asymmetries, misalignments from damage. The instability is allowed by mechanical looseness -- weak tires, weak ball joints and rod ends, weak or sloppy steering box. The instability is excited by external inputs -- hitting a bump, pothole, or step, or bad tire balance or wheel runout.
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2016 3500 LL CC LB 4x4 CTD DRW Delmonico red. BDS 3" truss radius arms & 3" coils w/double Fox 2.0s. Synergy drag link & tie rod. Dual stabilizers.
Carli track bar. Carli torsion anti-sway. Synergy steering box stabilizer. Rear 2" blocks. Weldcraft 17x8 custom steel duallies w/Mickey Thompson 295/70-17 ATXP3s.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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I put a new Redhead steering box on a year ago, with steering box brace, the tie rod ends were just replaced, truck realigned, I dont know what else to look at all these parts are either brand new or 1 year old. What pressures should I be running?

2013 Ram 2500 CCSB 4x4 G56, full delete, CTT EFILive 5 position switch, Green, Carli Commuter 2.0, Torsion sway bar, Fox 2.0 shocks, rear add a pack, synergy steering linkage, Readhead steering gears steering box
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:40 PM
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What brand and load range are your tires?

Check out these links:
https://www.thurenfabrication.com/te...-in-depth.html
https://www.thurenfabrication.com/te...-handling.html
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyandrick01 View Post
I put a new Redhead steering box on a year ago, with steering box brace, the tie rod ends were just replaced, truck realigned, I dont know what else to look at all these parts are either brand new or 1 year old. What pressures should I be running?
I don't know what your truck's tire pressures are, sorry. A 3500 can run 80 psi all around and needs it rather badly in the fronts all the time, especially a dually on stock skinnies, although the rears might be aired down to 40 unloaded. I would start by checking to make sure you're running maximum rated cold pressure in your tires and then drive like that and see if it gets better. More pressure = more sidewall stiffness = less tendency for DW. It's not a fix... it's a mitigating factor.

Since you just installed or had ball joints installed, alignment is suspect. A 2" lift will throw off any basic shop's ability to correctly align your truck because the computer doesn't know about your altered geometry. The result is usually asymmetrically adjusted caster cams, which will cause instability... bla bla bla. If I were in your shoes, I would air up the tires to max pressure, dial in as much positive caster as I could, and get toe-in as close to zero -- but not with any toe-out -- as I could. See what happens. You're not going to hurt anything by running too much positive caster... you'll just have a lot of on-center feel. Near zero toe is recommended for these trucks.

If you still see DW, the next step is to borrow a set of wheels and tires from another truck with premium tires, provided everything is tight.

2016 3500 LL CC LB 4x4 CTD DRW Delmonico red. BDS 3" truss radius arms & 3" coils w/double Fox 2.0s. Synergy drag link & tie rod. Dual stabilizers.
Carli track bar. Carli torsion anti-sway. Synergy steering box stabilizer. Rear 2" blocks. Weldcraft 17x8 custom steel duallies w/Mickey Thompson 295/70-17 ATXP3s.
AEV axle covers. AEV vented hood. Luverne polished stainless steel boards. Bakflip MX4 hard cover. Bushwacker max coverage flares.
B-pillar vinyl delete. Mopar door chrome. Areion semi-truck flap mounts. Steelcraft polished stainless light guards.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:46 PM
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Yeah.. like B.Lee says, verify load range. Too low a load range = too low a pressure = weak sidewalls... etc. I quoted pressures assuming correct Load Range E1 tires.

2016 3500 LL CC LB 4x4 CTD DRW Delmonico red. BDS 3" truss radius arms & 3" coils w/double Fox 2.0s. Synergy drag link & tie rod. Dual stabilizers.
Carli track bar. Carli torsion anti-sway. Synergy steering box stabilizer. Rear 2" blocks. Weldcraft 17x8 custom steel duallies w/Mickey Thompson 295/70-17 ATXP3s.
AEV axle covers. AEV vented hood. Luverne polished stainless steel boards. Bakflip MX4 hard cover. Bushwacker max coverage flares.
B-pillar vinyl delete. Mopar door chrome. Areion semi-truck flap mounts. Steelcraft polished stainless light guards.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 06:56 PM
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Ah. Here's the other thread. Problem solved by replacing the import Load Range D tires with premium tires.

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...bble-help.html

2016 3500 LL CC LB 4x4 CTD DRW Delmonico red. BDS 3" truss radius arms & 3" coils w/double Fox 2.0s. Synergy drag link & tie rod. Dual stabilizers.
Carli track bar. Carli torsion anti-sway. Synergy steering box stabilizer. Rear 2" blocks. Weldcraft 17x8 custom steel duallies w/Mickey Thompson 295/70-17 ATXP3s.
AEV axle covers. AEV vented hood. Luverne polished stainless steel boards. Bakflip MX4 hard cover. Bushwacker max coverage flares.
B-pillar vinyl delete. Mopar door chrome. Areion semi-truck flap mounts. Steelcraft polished stainless light guards.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for all the help and input guys!

The tires are Sailun TerraMax A/T and they are a 10 ply. I know when i finally get new wheels and tires that Carli says to run 37's at 40psi up and 35psi in the rear and they use Toyo tires. That is the route i want to go I found a fuel wheel and i want to pair it with Toyo Open Country R/T 37 x12.5 18

2013 Ram 2500 CCSB 4x4 G56, full delete, CTT EFILive 5 position switch, Green, Carli Commuter 2.0, Torsion sway bar, Fox 2.0 shocks, rear add a pack, synergy steering linkage, Readhead steering gears steering box
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jyandrick01 View Post
thanks for all the help and input guys!

The tires are Sailun TerraMax A/T and they are a 10 ply. I know when i finally get new wheels and tires that Carli says to run 37's at 40psi up and 35psi in the rear and they use Toyo tires. That is the route i want to go I found a fuel wheel and i want to pair it with Toyo Open Country R/T 37 x12.5 18
If they're Sailun Light Truck size tires with the size preceded by an LT, they're nominally load range E. That having been said, based on my experience with import truck tires -- never, ever, ever again -- I wouldn't trust 'em. That's just me.

If they don't say "LT", they're SUV load rated only.... and it looks like two on the front end could be overloaded on an empty truck.

Check your alignment before you do anything. Crawl under, check the caster adjuster cam-slots. If you have original radius arms your caster adjustment in the positive direction is limited now, unless you have drop brackets. Nasty things, drop brackets... JMHO. If you don't have drop brackets and you do have original radius arms... I'd twist the axle all the way back.

Check your tow. You can do that at home with plumb bobs, duct tape, a long straightedge, and measuring tape.

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/4...duct-tape.html

If your tires are an LT size, you should be able to pump them up to 80 psi. Check the sidewall. If not... I'd bet we found your problem.

2016 3500 LL CC LB 4x4 CTD DRW Delmonico red. BDS 3" truss radius arms & 3" coils w/double Fox 2.0s. Synergy drag link & tie rod. Dual stabilizers.
Carli track bar. Carli torsion anti-sway. Synergy steering box stabilizer. Rear 2" blocks. Weldcraft 17x8 custom steel duallies w/Mickey Thompson 295/70-17 ATXP3s.
AEV axle covers. AEV vented hood. Luverne polished stainless steel boards. Bakflip MX4 hard cover. Bushwacker max coverage flares.
B-pillar vinyl delete. Mopar door chrome. Areion semi-truck flap mounts. Steelcraft polished stainless light guards.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-16-2019, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyandrick01 View Post
2013 ram 2500 CCSB g56 4x4 with 111xxx miles. I have a carli commuter with all the options, new steering box, synergy tierod and sttering, new ball joints installed just the other week. I am running 285/70/17 tires. on my trip home from vacation today i had death wobble 3 times when hitting the transition from highway to bridges in West Virginia at 75 mph. Everything is new upfront and I have had 2 different shops look at it. what could still be causing this. the tires are an off brand, could they be the cause of it just not being a good tire? i want new wheels and Toyo tires but that requires some saving.
Sounds like you have quality parts on the truck so I would guess it's bad tires. The common fix for most legit DW's are a good track bar, steering damper and quality tires.

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