A/C compressor cycle - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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A/C compressor cycle

Question is about the compressor and the charge. I used a can of a/c pro. This was necessary since when I changed my transmission cooler, I disconnected the a/c radiator (intercooler looking thing in front of the radiator) and all the gas/oil/whatever came out. The gauge on the can of a/c pro read 0 when I started. Now the gauge jumps all over the place. I followed the directions, but it didn't mention anything about the fluctuation. It goes from barely into the green all the way into the red area. There is no correlation as to when the compressor cycles in regards to this pressure variant. I was watching the compressor, and it cycles every 8 seconds. Both off and on, every 8 seconds.. The air in the cab is sometimes cool, other times it is just like the vent is on. I'm totally confused here. Is there a chance I over charged the system, is the compressor having issues? Any help would be great. Thanks in advance..


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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 01:48 AM
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I have never used one of those disposable types of cans. I don't know what pressures the colors correlate to.

My truck has a tag that said 1lb 14oz. I have a feeling you only put in half of that. You do see major fluctuations when undercharged.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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The colors are green= good to go, red= overcharged. Depends on ambient temp where in the green range the charge should be.


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 04:29 AM
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The only way to know if you over charged it is know how many oz were in the can you used. Now any time you open the ac system it has to be vacuumed in order to remove all moister that enetered the system when you opened it and to remove all the air. The air and moister is going to affect the systems overall cooling ability and lead to eventual system failure.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 04:37 AM
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you'd better get that rig to a qualified a/c tech.
that junke in a can can be almost anything R22, R40 and they all have extra oil in them.
you may have already overloaded your system on oil and it's pooled.

system needs a set of gauges to set proper coolant charge.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 04:37 AM
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Your system isn't operating properly or to its full potential because not all of the freon and oil was recovered from the system and it wasn't vacuumed to remove the air and moisture. The system should be vacuumed before introducing refrigerant into it. The fluctuation you are seeing is probably caused by the air that is in the system passing through the evaporator core when it should be refrigerant.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 12:46 PM
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I agree with randal07, after you released the freon you never mentioned that you pulled a vacum on the system, If not then you have air In the system which will cause the fluxuation as well as contaminate the dryer, get It evacuated If it's not to late.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 02:59 PM
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Your fluctuations are being caused by physical sedimentry contamination in the compressor or fixed orifice or undercharged.

Yes every time you open the system it needs to be vacumed down before charge.
I would not expect the amount of moisture introduced to cause what your seeing.

I still bet your low on gas.

Getting it evacuated and charged is a good idea. But I bet your low on charge.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 09:15 PM
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your system is probably contaminated, best to have a vacuum pulled on the entire system for at least 30min in order to get all the water vapor out of the lines and oil, and then recharge and hope the moisture didnt eat anything up yet.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 10:04 PM
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anytime the system is opened it MUST be evacuated!
ALL the air must be removed PRIOR to introducing refrigerant.
this is going to be long.
Do not use the quick fix in a can deals for A/C work. They can cause more problems than they "fix". The system needs to be evacuated AND when charging you need to know the Low AND High side pressure(s).
Any other way is just a crap shoot.
Again if it wasn't evacuated you are justr wasting your time and monety trying to get the A/C to work properly.

STANDARD PROCEDURE - REFRIGERANT
SYSTEM SERVICE EQUIPMENT
WARNING: EYE PROTECTION MUST BE WORN
WHEN SERVICING AN AIR CONDITIONING REFRIGERANT
SYSTEM. TURN OFF (ROTATE CLOCKWISE)
ALL VALVES ON THE EQUIPMENT BEING USED
BEFORE CONNECTING TO, OR DISCONNECTING
FROM THE REFRIGERANT SYSTEM. FAILURE TO
OBSERVE THESE WARNINGS MAY RESULT IN PERSONAL
INJURY.
WARNING: REVIEW THE WARNINGS AND CAUTIONS
IN THE FRONT OF THIS SECTION BEFORE
PERFORMING THE FOLLOWING OPERATION (Refer
to 24 - HEATING & AIR CONDITIONING/PLUMBING -
WARNING) and (Refer to 24 - HEATING & AIR CONDITIONING/
PLUMBING - CAUTION).
When servicing the air conditioning system, a
R-134a refrigerant recovery/recycling/charging station
that meets SAE Standard J2210 must be used
(Fig. 2). Contact an automotive service equipment
supplier for refrigerant recovery/recycling/charging
equipment. Refer to the operating instructions supplied
by the equipment manufacturer for proper care
and use of this equipment.
A manifold gauge set may be needed with some
recovery/recycling/charging equipment (Fig. 3). The
service hoses on the gauge set being used should
have manual (turn wheel), or automatic back-flow
valves at the service port connector ends. This will
prevent refrigerant from being released into the
atmosphere.
MANIFOLD GAUGE SET CONNECTIONS
CAUTION: Do not use an R-12 manifold gauge set
on an R-134a system. The refrigerants are not compatible
and system damage will result.
LOW PRESSURE GAUGE HOSE The low pressure
hose (Blue with Black stripe) attaches to the low side
service port. This service port is located on the suction
line between the accumulator outlet port and the
A/C compressor.
HIGH PRESSURE GAUGE HOSE The high pressure
hose (Red with Black stripe) attaches to the
high side service port. This service port is located on
the discharge line near the A/C compressor. On this
model, an A/C pressure transducer is installed onto
the high pressure service port. A/C high side pressures
can be read using a DRBIIIt scan tool. Refer to
Body Diagnostic Procedures.
RECOVERY/RECYCLING/EVACUATION/CHARGING
HOSE The center manifold hose (Yellow, or
White, with Black stripe) is used to recover, evacuate,
and charge the refrigerant system. When the low
or high pressure valves on the manifold gauge set
are opened, the refrigerant in the system will escape
through this hose.
Fig. 2 Refrigerant Recovery/Recycling Station -
Typical
1 - R-134a REFRIGERANT STATION
Fig. 3 MANIFOLD GAUGE SET - TYPICAL
1 - HIGH PRESSURE GAUGE
2 - VALVE
3 - VACUUM/REFRIGERANT HOSE (YELLOW W/ BLACK STRIPE)
4 - HIGH PRESSURE HOSE (RED W/ BLACK STRIPE)
5 - LOW PRESSURE HOSE (BLUE W/ BLACK STRIPE)
6 - VALVE
7 - LOW PRESSURE GAUGE
WARNING: REVIEW THE WARNINGS AND CAUTIONS
IN THE FRONT OF THIS SECTION BEFORE
PERFORMING THE FOLLOWING OPERATION (Refer
to 24 - HEATING & AIR CONDITIONING/PLUMBING -
WARNING) and (Refer to 24 - HEATING & AIR CONDITIONING/
PLUMBING - CAUTION).
A R-134a refrigerant recovery/recycling/charging
station that meets SAE Standard J2210 must be
used to recover the refrigerant from an R-134a refrigerant
system. Refer to the operating instructions supplied
by the equipment manufacturer for the proper
care and use of this equipment.
STANDARD PROCEDURE - REFRIGERANT
SYSTEM EVACUATE
NOTE: Special effort must be used to prevent moisture
from entering the A/C system oil. Moisture in
the oil is very difficult to remove and will cause a
reliability problem with the compressor.
If a compressor designed to use R-134a refrigerant
is left open to the atmosphere for an extended period
of time. It is recommended that the refrigerant oil be
drained and replaced with new oil or a new compressor
be used. This will eliminate the possibility of contaminating
the refrigerant system.
If the refrigerant system has been open to the
atmosphere, it must be evacuated before the system
can be filled. Moisture and air mixed with the refrigerant
will raise the compressor head pressure above
acceptable operating levels. This will reduce the performance
of the air conditioner and damage the compressor.
Moisture will boil at near room temperature
when exposed to vacuum. To evacuate the refrigerant
system:
NOTE: When connecting the service equipment
coupling to the line fitting, verify that the valve of
the coupling is fully closed. This will reduce the
amount of effort required to make the connection.
(1) Recover the refrigerant system (Refer to 24 -
HEATING & AIR CONDITIONING/PLUMBING -
STANDARD PROCEDURE).
(2) Connect a suitable charging station, refrigerant
recovery machine or a manifold gauge set with vacuum
pump and refrigerant recovery equipment.
(3) Open the suction and discharge valves and
start the vacuum pump. The vacuum pump should
run a minimum of 45 minutes prior to charge to
eliminate all moisture in system. When the suction
gauge reads -88 kPa (- 26 in. Hg) vacuum or greater
for 30 minutes, close all valves and turn off vacuum
pump. If the system fails to reach specified vacuum,
the refrigerant system likely has a leak that must be
corrected. If the refrigerant system maintains specified
vacuum for at least 30 minutes, start the vacuum
pump, open the suction and discharge valves.
Then allow the system to evacuate an additional 10
minutes.
(4) Close all valves. Turn off and disconnect the
vacuum pump.
(5) Charge the refrigerant system (Refer to 24 -
HEATING & AIR CONDITIONING/PLUMBING -
STANDARD PROCEDURE).
STANDARD PROCEDURE - REFRIGERANT
SYSTEM CHARGE
WARNING: REVIEW SAFETY PRECAUTIONS AND
WARNINGS IN THIS GROUP BEFORE CHARGING
THE REFRIGERANT SYSTEM.
AVOID BREATHING A/C REFRIGERANT AND LUBRICANT
VAPOR OR MIST. EXPOSURE MAY IRRITATE
EYES, NOSE AND THROAT. USE ONLY APPROVED
SERVICE EQUIPMENT MEETING SAE REQUIREMENTS
TO DISCHARGE R-134a SYSTEM. IF ACCIDENTAL
SYSTEM DISCHARGE OCCURS,
VENTILATE WORK AREA BEFORE RESUMING SERVICE.
R-134a SERVICE EQUIPMENT OR VEHICLE A/C
SYSTEM SHOULD NOT BE PRESSURE TESTED OR
LEAK TESTED WITH COMPRESSED AIR. MIXTURE
OF AIR and R-134a CAN BE COMBUSTIBLE AT ELEVATED
PRESSURES. THESE MIXTURES ARE
POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS AND MAY RESULT IN
FIRE OR EXPLOSION CAUSING INJURY OR PROPERTY
DAMAGE.
CAUTION: Do not overcharge refrigerant system, as
excessive compressor head pressure can cause
noise and system failure.
CAUTION: A small amount of refrigerant oil is
removed from the A/C system each time the refrigerant
system is recovered and evacuated. Before
charging the A/C system, you MUST replenish any
oil lost during the recovery process. Refer the
equipment manufacturer instructions for more information.
The procedure below should be used to fill the
refrigerant charge in the air conditioning system.
This A/C system does not have or use a sight glass to
check or charge the system.
After the system has been tested for leaks and
evacuated, a refrigerant (R-134a) charge can be
injected into the system.
NOTE: When connecting the service equipment
coupling to the line fitting, verify that the valve of
the coupling is fully closed. This will reduce the
amount of effort required to make the connection.
(1) If using a separate vacuum pump close all
valves before disconnecting pump. Connect manifold
gauge set to the A/C service ports.
NOTE: Always refer to the underhood HVAC Specification
label for the refrigerant fill level of the vehicle
being serviced.
(2) Measure refrigerant (refer to capacities). Refer
to the instructions provided with the equipment
being used.
(3) Verify engine is shut off. Open the suction and
discharge valves. Open the charge valve to allow the
refrigerant to flow into the system. When the transfer
of refrigerant has stopped, close the suction and
discharge valve.
(4) If all of the charge did not transfer from the
dispensing device, put vehicle controls into the following
mode:
² Automatic transmission in park or manual
transmission in neutral
² Engine at idle
² A/C mode control set to outside air
² A/C mode control set to panel mode
² A/C temperature control set to full cool
² Blower motor control set on highest speed
² Vehicle windows closed
If the A/C compressor does not engage, test the
compressor clutch control circuit and correct any failure
(Refer to 8 - ELECTRICAL/WIRING DIAGRAM
INFORMATION - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING).
(5) Open the suction valve to allow the remaining
refrigerant to transfer to the system.
WARNING: TAKE CARE NOT TO OPEN THE DISCHARGE
(HIGH-PRESSURE) VALVE AT THIS TIME.
(6) Close all valves and test the A/C system performance.
(7) Disconnect the charging station or manifold
gauge set. Install the service port caps.
REFRIGERANT CHARGE CAPACITY
The R-134a refrigerant system charge capacity for
this vehicle can be found on the underhood HVAC
specfication tag.

BTW the A/C radiator "thing" you replaced is the condenser.

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Last edited by rdefayette; 06-13-2013 at 10:08 PM.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input from all. I'll look at taking it to a qualified a/c person ASAP!


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