220A alternator update pics... - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-27-2019, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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220A alternator update pics...

Inspired by KMech & his alternator upgrade thread... Thanks KMech for all your work!! Made this update a piece of cake.

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...rade-swap.html

Terminal block..
https://www.aspwholesale.com/termina...-nd-p2537.html
P/N 46-82204 (reference, found under the alt parts/denso page)

https://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/9990-1003.html


Dropping this in its own thread to provide good pics of what to expect & what the updated alternator looks like. There is a 2nd alternator in a dual setup that may be different... It was unclear to me what the differences are, everything I researched said it was a different part number. (rockauto.com)

Identifying pics


















Remove rear cover to expose the terminal block






Original terminal block, remove the beige piece to move over to replacement terminal block






Brushes (?) that need to be pushed back



Reasembled with updated terminal block



See that slot? thats where I used a sewing needle to pull the brushes back that are on springs.







With the needle in place, pull the bruses (?) back and reinstall the assembly onto the alternator. Once in place, screw it down the pull the needle.



Re-assemble...





Old block vs new block...





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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-27-2019, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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First observations... Grid heater voltage drop went from a low of 12.8 to 14.2~14.3, steady state voltage sits at 14.8~14.9 in the current conditions (60s out for ambient temps)

Misc stuff... alternator came from a truck with 31k on it, my truck has 421k on it... (reference for us old people lol)

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 02:16 AM
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nice photos and directions. TY
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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thanks...should remove any concerns on grabbing the right alternator & doing the update to it. hope it lasts like the one i yanked off which was the factory original...
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
Inspired by KMech & his alternator upgrade thread... Thanks KMech for all your work!! Made this update a piece of cake.

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...rade-swap.html

Terminal block..
https://www.aspwholesale.com/termina...-nd-p2537.html

Dropping this in its own thread to provide good pics of what to expect & what the updated alternator looks like. There is a 2nd alternator in a dual setup that may be different... It was unclear to me what the differences are, everything I researched said it was a different part number. (rockauto.com)
<snip>
No problem! I'm glad it was useful to more than just me. Thanks for taking the time to post such detailed pics.

I'm not 100% certain what the differences were, but my best recollection is something along the lines that each connector has two terminals. One of them, the terminals are rotor field (+) and rotor field ground (-). The other one grounds rotor field to the alternator case, then uses one terminal for rotor field (+), and the other terminal for voltage sense. NO ONE should take that statement for fact, however. That is just a two year old vague recollection of a best guess at an explanation. If someone was wanting to know what the differences are, I would use that as a jumping off point and see if it could be confirmed/disproven.

My grid heater voltage sag was much improved, but not so much as yours. As I recall, the grid heater draws over 200 amps, which should overwhelm the alternator and put the electrical system momentarily into a discharging state (albeit less discharging than the original alternator at 136 rated output).

Do you have the means to measure amp draw on your grid heater? I'm not trying to be a negative nancy on your outstanding results, but the posted numbers suggest your alternator's output is greater than your heater's draw. It's been too long, I don't remember the amp draw of the heater, but off the top of my head I thought it was over 200 amps.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I do have a current clamp meter but I think its limited to 100A, I will check. ...and the more I think of it, I dont recall it dipping that low down to 12.8V like it used to, I might have an issue with the grid heaters. It is still obvious when they do cycle.

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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 02:03 PM
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I just went and cold started mine. I have a HUD that shows digital voltage readout, making it real easy to check. First run (engine off) actually pulled down to 10.0V. Second run (engine running) pulled down to 12.2V. Full disclosure, my batteries are old, and therefore probably dip a little more. Still, one thing that should be constant regardless of battery condition, is a system drawing less than an alternator's total output should be above 12.8, and a system drawing more than an alternator's total output should be less than 12.8, although in the short term, a battery's surface charge may hold it above that point.

I always see grid heaters mentioned in plural. Are there multiples of them? If there are two, and one is out, that would explain showing a voltage sag, but less than normal.

Either way, after running this upgrade for 2 years, it's great. That truck is one mean jump starting son of a buck...
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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on my 05 there are 2 relays so i presume 2 circuits. i had one relay fail on me in Minn, swapped both. it threw a CE light. i should be able to check each circuits current draw

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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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update.. first drive into work after the swap, apparent grid heater relay failure. intake temps maintain an +18-25* over ABTs. no way that happens on the first half of the commute drive without grid heater help

usually IATs are ambient by the time i hit the freeway just minutes after rolling out. i will investigate after work...

fwiw, the system maintained a 14.8-15.0v level the entire trip and apparently there is enough current to run with the GH on 100%.... which btw, i logged. i would have never known there was an issue without the torque app running for me to see the intake temps way higher than ambient.

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Expecting dead batteries at the end of the day, I removed power to the relays from the battery, expecting sparks upon disconnect, I got none. tapped the connector back to the terminal and still none. So now I am curious as to if they were supposed to be on 100% with ambient temps as low as they were... 40~42* They certainly were not behaving like they were last week... IATs maintained a +20*f bump over ambient.

Any thoughts?


edit: I wonder if the ECU will keep them on now that it has solid power to support them... thinking once the load draws the battery down the ECU releases the relays whereas now with more current available, keeps them enabled.

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 01:24 PM
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I think the grid heater logic is also tied into the coolant temp.


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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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CT's reach 200* at about half way to work..., ABTs stayed in the low 40's. There is a possible source of info over in the HPT forums, gonna hit him up with the question tonight... I think he has access to more info then us "normies" out here in the real world...

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 50HP DDP , 424k, HPTuners, G56, 25.065 mpg, mpg threads ->https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...l#post23312562
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