Confirmed Timing Gear Housing to Block Leak - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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Confirmed Timing Gear Housing to Block Leak

Hey All,

Want to start this post as I'm really thinking about doing all of this in my driveway, I just want to gather people's thoughts in this thread and possibly do an extensive write up again. It seams all the old threads are incomplete or Photobucket has blurred out the images (heisting of the photos, round 2).

Bit of history, 04.5 Cummins, 6sp. I've done pretty thorough write ups on here that were pic heavy having to do with dropping and re-sealing the oil pan, as well as the front crank seal as well. All in order to solve a leak since I've owned the truck (2012).

Rear mains, front crank seal/timing cover, new oil pan gasket, breather tubing, puck, nothing has solved the issue. It really has to be one more thing, and that's the timing gear housing cover to block interface.

Most of the threads I've ready have to do with oil dripping off the passenger side onto the A/C comp, and it's solve by pulling all the parts to get to the "slope" of the timing case where the 2 bolts are far apart, and people will seal that crack with RTV and be good. Unfortunately, that's not where my leak is originating. I was able to snap this photo, this is looking under the CP3:



I'm unsure of how high the leak starts, but it's coming down the driver side, collecting on top of the block where the oil pan bolts, runs to the back of the block, then down the bellhousing/back of pan. It does not look like I can get back there to seal anything up with gasketmaker there's not a lot of room. There is NO oil on the passenger side at all

So it's looking like I'm going to have to pull everything.

I called the dealerships around my area, wanted $3500 to do this. They all pull the entire cam assembly out, despite reading and hearing that there is a puller that is used by some places to pull that cam gear off, which would simplify everything. But no one I talked to would do that.

So it may be up to me to get all this done outside in the driveway, in the PNW fall where it rains 25 hours a day.

The teardown is pretty straight forward as I understand it, but I have a couple questions. My plan is to pull the oil pan again since there are some mating surfaces that require a dab of RTV to be completely sealed. This is going to require the use of the cherry picker to lift the engine enough to drop the pickup tube and then clear the axle. I was able to do this last go around by loosening the engine mounts and rotating the engine up on the passenger side enough. There were no transmission nuts/bolts removed though for this. I'm trying to avoid cutting the lower support to get the CAM out.

So here's what I'm thinking as a removal process (edited):

1) Drain coolant from radiator as well as the oil.
2) Massive bumper
3) Fan assembly/shroud (with the special tooling)
4) Hoses, Radiator, intercooler, unbolt condenser and let it hang out of the way
5) Upper support
6) Belt
7) Harmonic Balancer
8) Tensioner
9) Un-bolt power steering assembly and rotate out of the way
9.2) Notch frame to remove lower radiator support: https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/23167226-post2.html
10) Timing cover bolts, pop the timing cover off (this has a VERY nice bead of RTV from me last time...
10.2) Rotate the engine to TDC (line up the crank/cam "0"s)
11) Move under the truck, oil pan bolts, loosen motor mounts/possibly transmission mount bolt/nut*
12) Cherry pick the engine up and yard the pan out
13) Let the engine back down on its mounts and move back to the top
14) Take valve the cover off
15) Rockers/rods**
16) Chopstick and zip tie/rubber band method to hold tappets in place (although if they fall it's not detrimental since the oil pan is off?)
17) Cherry pick the engine back up to clear the lower brace
18) Yard the cam assembly out
19) ***gears?
20) timing gear housing
21) Replace gasket****
22) Reverse everything

So a few questions and feel free to add anything, this was just from the top of my head

11)* Is it necessary to loosen the transmission mounting hardware? It wasn't to just drop the oil pan, there was enough flex

15)** I've read about people pulling the injector harness and injectors...is this necessary (I don't think so?) Is there anything else under the cover that I'm forgetting that needs to go?

19)*** Is there any trick for the CP3 gear to pop off? Then I'm guessing you have to un-bolt the CP3 from that housing? Is it ok to let it hang after that?

21)****Does anyone favor something like "The Right Stuff" for sealing the mating surface between the block and timing gear housing rather than the gasket (similar to sealing to timing cover to the timing housing)? I've sealed many of oil pans and mating surfaces with great success so I'm wondering if it would work better in this location over a gasket in the long term?

A couple more things...in case my cam doesn't look good, I have a buddy that pulled a new 6.7 cam/tappets from an engine that he used for a 5.9/6.7 swap to go to an aftermarket cam. I don't think I'd be gaining anything (if anything at all, it may not perform as well because of the emissions criteria on the newer engines), but if I need am I correct in thinking I could just swap them and the tappets out?

I think since I will be doing the work myself, I'm going to a billet timing cover. Yest they are a lot of $$, but I'm thinking for the future crank seal replacements if and when...you only have to remove the harmonic balancer and seal cover to remove and install a new seal...instead of breaking the cover seal:



Anyway, any other tips, tricks, or thoughts are appreciated in advance. Like I mentioned, I plan on doing a writeup on this for all of the other lost/incomplete threads out there!


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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 06:24 PM
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When I had mine done by a buddy that worked at a dealer I was able to help him with it a little bit and he unbolted the fenders for the most part and we used big pry bars to pull them apart to remove the lower brace. It was a bit nerve racking as you have to be gentle yet forceful but it worked. You open it up just enough to get the brace out.
The rest I don’t really have many answers for you as he had done this repair many times and for the most part I felt like I was in his way more than helping haha.

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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-07 View Post
When I had mine done by a buddy that worked at a dealer I was able to help him with it a little bit and he unbolted the fenders for the most part and we used big pry bars to pull them apart to remove the lower brace. It was a bit nerve racking as you have to be gentle yet forceful but it worked. You open it up just enough to get the brace out.
The rest I donít really have many answers for you as he had done this repair many times and for the most part I felt like I was in his way more than helping haha.
I am not going to have a second set of hands for most of this, so that's not really an option. Not too keen on "prying" things apart. I'd rather cut that lower crossmember and make it a bolt in application for the future if it comes to that.

But since the oil pan will be off and I have the tools to lift the engine, I'd like to try and clear that lower support (I've read some success stories of doing this but want to confirm before I'm that deep into the project

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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 07:02 PM
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How bad is the leak?

2006 2500 4x4 Reg Cab stock
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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How bad is the leak?
It's bugged me since I've had the truck, I've put a lot of blood and sweat into chasing it down, so it's bad enough that I'm doing this. I think I was 2+ qt low on my last oil change. It only leaves a few drips in the driveway, but it's coated my pan after driving and the wind, etc. The last go around it had started to eat the clearcoat on my pan. Re-coated the pan and it's starting to wear on that paint. It's the last leak on the truck so I'd like to get er fixed correctly. It's not my DD so it's ok if the truck is down for a bit of time as I'm expecting it to be.

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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 07:27 PM
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I have the passenger side leak but not bad (never drips) just enough to blow, migrate around and lightly coat things near AC. 2 quarts will make a mess and nobody likes leaks but I would need a more compelling reason to go that deep.

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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jaysea View Post
I have the passenger side leak but not bad (never drips) just enough to blow, migrate around and lightly coat things near AC. 2 quarts will make a mess and nobody likes leaks but I would need a more compelling reason to go that deep.
Sounds like your fix could be quite easy then with just pulling a few things to expose the timing cover and laying a bead of "the right stuff" gasket maker in the groove that notoriously leaks, seen here:



This is where the largest gap between the mounting bolts for the gear housing is. Sometimes the gasket deteriorates here or just doesn't seal and many have fixed semi-permanently.

This unfortunately, is not my situation. But if it doesn't bother you, then no worries. I have a commuter vehicle so I can afford to have the truck down while I do this repair.

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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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Hey krash. My truck is my DD but with the money I’ll save from doing it myself I might rent a cheap car for a few days.
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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Hey krash. My truck is my DD but with the money Iíll save from doing it myself I might rent a cheap car for a few days.
Yup it's probably worth it to do that.

Not being home on the weekends really only gives me a few hours each evening to work, so I'm going to take my time and not be worried if the truck is down for a few days. Going to work methodically and carefully. We'll get er' done and hopefully I'll have a really detailed write up on this for whoever decides to tackle this in the future.

Just ordered my D&J timing cover

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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 01:57 PM
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Does that D&J timing cover allow the installation and removal of a wear sleeve for the crank shaft if you want it?
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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 02:02 PM
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Thats where mine was leaking also. Now my oil pan has a leak Lol

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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyman859 View Post
Does that D&J timing cover allow the installation and removal of a wear sleeve for the crank shaft if you want it?
You may be able to install the wear sleeve with the cover on, but if you ever had to replace the wear sleeve you'd have to take it off since you'd basically need to split the wear sleeve somehow. From what I've heard though, those wear sleeves will last a LONG time. You'll be changing the seal out before that thing will wear. The D&J timing cover does allow you to install/remove a new seal without removing the cover. The only thing you need to do is pop off the harmonic balancer. No fan assembly removal, belt, tensioner, PS pump, cover, etc. Just that piece on the timing cover. My buddy got one for his 6.7 and that piece that comes off also installs the seal to the correct depth, so no messing with the depth tool and tapping the seal in.

@ADawg, yours is leaking from where I posted a pic, or it's leaking down the passenger side?

Also, has anyone opted out of the gasket between the block and the gear housing in lieu of something like "The Right Stuff" gasketmaker? I believe the 6.7's don't have a traditional gasket there and use some sort of gasketmaker. May be better for the vibrations and twisting of the engine the mighty C can be subjected to...

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