No Start/cold start issues 2004 5.9 HPCR - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Question No Start/cold start issues 2004 5.9 HPCR

Trying to help a friend with her 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 2WD 5.9 HPCR Cummins.

Cold start/no start issues.

Iím new to Cummins so please bear with me! Iíll try to explain as much as I can and hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to save her money! And me time as I'm hoping to fix it for her!

250,000 miles, no problems ever.

Recently cold weather has seen poor start/no start and it seems to be many folks here in Ontario have had starting issues of late.

Temperature here has been hitting lows -25 C, -5 F for the past few weeks with highs of about -10C, 5 F

Checked block heater. It works. Engine does get warm within an hour.

Checked Air Intake Heater. Works. ButÖone day while checking, volts from ECM to both relays read only 3.5V. That day, truck was in the garage out of the cold with a space heater underneath the engine.

Changed fuel filter. Housing did have fuel in it when drained.

Before putting in new filter, turned on key and fuel was coming into the housing.

Left truck outside, plugged in overnight. Was -23 C and truck started in the am, no problem. Did not drive it, left it there plugged in until afternoon and it would not start.

Started truck one evening after being plugged in. Truck went to store to get fuel conditioner/anti-gel stuff. Started when she came out. Drove the truck home. Shut it off. It would not start 30 mins later.

Starting seems intermittent.

Turns over fine. Always at least 150 RPM as charger is put on batteries at night.

Would not start last night after being plugged in all day.

Unplugged FCA and tried. No Start.

Gave it a small shot of ether. Started within 5 seconds.

Notice that when cold start light comes on for only 2 seconds, the truck will start. If the cycle runs more than 2 seconds, it doesnít start.

Tested the heater elements and they get 12Vís and they get warm. Power to them cycles in sync with what the dash light is doing, so no issues there I believe.

There is 12V going to fuel heater in the filter housing, but I havenít checked for continuity in the heater itself due to hard to get test probes in there.

There is one code stored. P0480 for the fan clutch. I have not unplugged it and tried starting it. Could that cause a no start?

What to check next? Iím assuming these things:
1) If truck starts with ether, thereís no issue in fuel getting from tank to lift pump to filter housing and on to CP3
2) If truck starts with ether, crank and cam sensors are working and in sync
3) Unplugging FCA did nothing, so solenoid and pump ok? Or can these work intermittently?
4) If truck starts with ether, fan clutch is not an issue for no start.
5) Injectors are original as far as we know. She bought the truck with 100,000 miles on it in Texas and hasnít done anything to it aside from some maintenanceÖbut when I asked her the last time she changed her fuel filter, she thinks never.  She`s put 150,000 miles on it.

Suggestions on where to go next are appreciated. Iíd like to check return fuel from injectors etc, but that means money spent and some frozen fingers so hoping maybe someone has had success with this in other areas.

Thank you!

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 10:48 AM
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sounds like no fuel pressure is being built up when it does not start...
Welcome to Cumminsforum...

2 thing stand out, cascade overflow valve aka COV... and the pressure reliefe valve aka PRV, the later would just cause low power as they tend to leak fuel back to the fuel filter housing and rail pressure is slow to build. The COV however regulates the fuel pressure to the FCA... it could be that this valve is sticking open, you could pull it and try to clean it (never tried so have no idea if that would work or not) or swap it since it is cheap.

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There is an excellent writeup on the fuel system here on CF, I will see if I can find it.

edit: oh wait, starts with ether and continues to run? If its running and you unplug the FCA it should start belching up a storm. Try that and if it does, plug the FCA back in. If it doesnt then the FCA could be a problem.

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 10:54 AM
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Here it is... have a look.

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3r...explained.html

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 50HP DDP , 409k, HPTuners, G56, 23.348 mpg, mpg threads ->
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 10:54 AM
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Gelled fuel?

Try letting the grid heater cycle and before starting cycle it 1 or 2 more times and see what happens. Maybe you have a weak battery.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 11:15 AM
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The p0480 code will cause a no start. Try to fix that first.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssteve View Post
The p0480 code will cause a no start. Try to fix that first.
I dont think so on this truck... it's older than mine and I have that code all day long with my clutch unplugged...

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 11:37 AM
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Next time it won't start unplug the fan, just to make sure.
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for everyone's input. Can't get out to the truck tonight but will tomorrow.

I am also thinking lack of fuel pressure to the rail.

As for the fan, I've seen posts where people say it won;t start, but it seems there's always been a seperate underlying issue. The truck has started and hasn;t started so not sure if the fan would make a difference, but if it doesn't start in the am, I'll try unplugging the fan. I believe there's a connection under rad cradle. If someone could point me in the right direction for location, that would help.

As for gelling, fuel is entering the filter housing and the truck has started without ether in -20 C so I can't see gelling being a problem. And if it only started with ether last night (-15 C), again, if the fuel was gelled, how would it get through the system for the truck to run? Just thinking out loud.

My understanding is the CP3 is a 2 stage pump...first stage boost to approx 200 PSI and second to whatever the ECM is telling the FCA to do based on readings from the FPS (fuel pressure sensor) on the rail. (I've yet to look at the link provided as just got in, but will this eve. Thank you for the link!)

I will get the truck running and then unplug the FCA as suggested and see how it runs. And yes, starts with ether and then runs, so eventually the rail is getting the minimum 5,000 PSI require. If I have that right...I hear 4,000 and I hear 5,000 and I believe that's output from the CP3, but it does seem during cranking that it's not getting fuel. Does not want to fire at all. And when it does start, it's within 3-5 seconds, which I think is acceptable given the temps.

As for cycling grid heater, that doesn't seem to be the problem. Sometimes it starts; sometimes not. I do know they are working properly though as they both are receiving 12V when cycling, both have continuity and the intake tube gets quite warm.

Batteries are 2 months old. Keeping them charged during the night and the engine turns over at over 150 rpm. No issues with cranking over.

Will update tomorrow and thank you so much for the suggestions!
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 08:26 PM
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Good luck, let us know what happens...

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 08:35 PM
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Sounds like gelling issues. With those kind of temps you definitely be using power service every fill up. I've learned the hard way...

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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 09:44 PM
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What I'm thinking is, you are getting a intermittent short to ground, that would explain the start, no start issue. What you are missing is the ecm low voltage code.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssteve View Post
Next time it won't start unplug the fan, just to make sure.
Oh are you saying a short in the fan clutch will prevent it from starting? (as opposed to an open)? that would make sense...


whoops, missed the post above...

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