Most efficient stock turbo replacement - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Like the title said, it doesn't get asked very often, I am trying to find the most efficient "drop in" stock replacement turbo possible. Not opposed to tater or turbo labs either, leaving it all open. Lower drive pressures, lower boost at highway speeds, lower EGT, more MPG, ect. Basically what the best possible setup would be if you were to redo it from the factory.

I can find endless threads on how everyone's turbos are a nice increase in power with a side benefit of being more efficient but none really that are centered around efficiency first then a slight performance bump as a benefit.

I'd like to hear what you would suggest with stock sticks and also what you would suggest with different sticks for maximum efficiency. Not necessarily for hp gain but matched well with the turbo and resulting in shorter injection time.

I currently have a BD GT tuner but am planning on getting a Smarty if it all goes well enough. Thanks!


2004 2500 QC SB 4x4 250k mi and counting
Bully Dog GT. Fass 95g LP. K&N Insert. Dynamic Trans VB. Leveling Kit. 285/65/17
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 04:25 AM
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htt stage 2 he351 with an afe exhaust manfold. love it, combined with 50 hp injectors. stock injectors with tuning should also work really well. add exhaust manifold & turbo blankets for year round performance stability.
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AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 50HP DDP , 423k, HPTuners, G56, 25.065 mpg, mpg threads ->https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...l#post23312562
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 08:08 AM
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Canít get much more efficient than a stocker. Anything larger you put it will make it will add lag on the bottom end to give you a better top end. In the end itís up to what you are willing to give up.


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
htt stage 2 he351 with an afe exhaust manfold. love it, combined with 50 hp injectors. stock injectors with tuning should also work really well. add exhaust manifold & turbo blankets for year round performance stability.
Thanks again for the input Steve! Is that the turbo that you're currently running? Looking at their website, which one exactly are you talking about

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Originally Posted by Kryp2nitE View Post
Can’t get much more efficient than a stocker. Anything larger you put it will make it will add lag on the bottom end to give you a better top end. In the end it’s up to what you are willing to give up.


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You can when I currently have a stock old HE341. Even a HE351 would be an upgrade. I am absolutely willing to give up some minimal to zero perceived lag for the efficiency gain of even at minimum a slightly larger housing

2004 2500 QC SB 4x4 250k mi and counting
Bully Dog GT. Fass 95g LP. K&N Insert. Dynamic Trans VB. Leveling Kit. 285/65/17
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 09:38 AM
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You can when I currently have a stock old HE341. Even a HE351 would be an upgrade. I am absolutely willing to give up some minimal to zero perceived lag for the efficiency gain of even at minimum a slightly larger housing


Even a 351 is laggier than a 341, thats why no one talked about efficiency when talking turbo upgrades. Itís a completely subjective way to measure a turbo.

Typically you donít see many people complain about drivability until you go past a 64mm turbo. If I could start all over Iíd probably do a sxe62 or 64.5 and eventually put a 480 under it. My 63mm HE351 is fine but itís just as expensive in the long run.


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 10:08 AM
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Thanks again for the input Steve! Is that the turbo that you're currently running? Looking at their website, which one exactly are you talking about
this is as close as it gets now with what they offer. Back then they called it a stage 2.5

https://www.htturbo.com/product-p/4043600-1063.htm

these 2 bullet points are notable
-63.5mm FMW 7-blade Compressor Wheel <- They called it a 64mm comp wheel, not sure if they changed it or not.
-High Flow 10-Blade Turbine Wheel

Love the setup I have, 50 HP sticks, the AFE e-mani & this turbo + custom tuning. Additionally, it has an ATS Arcflo, stock airbox, AFE torque tube, blankets on the exhaust mani & turbo plus 2 light weight pulleys. Motor wise thats it. Other mods include custom e-fans and fuel cooler, aluminum driveshaft, light weight OEM wheels (21# ea with 285-70-17's).

It all adds up to meet my goals of a fairly fuel efficient daily driver getting 20~23 mpg every tank depending on how I drive. Cant say enough about the $250 pulley swap that shaved just 2# of the front of the motor. I managed 20.2~3 mpg doing 75~8x on a recent road trip right after one of the pulley installs, and the bearing on that pulley was tight so there was added drag until it had a few heat cycles.

anyways, hope this helps...

What is the drive for most efficient turbo? There are some pretty cheap mods that will improve mpg if that is the goal...

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 50HP DDP , 423k, HPTuners, G56, 25.065 mpg, mpg threads ->https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...l#post23312562
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
this is as close as it gets now with what they offer. Back then they called it a stage 2.5

https://www.htturbo.com/product-p/4043600-1063.htm

these 2 bullet points are notable
-63.5mm FMW 7-blade Compressor Wheel <- They called it a 64mm comp wheel, not sure if they changed it or not.
-High Flow 10-Blade Turbine Wheel

Love the setup I have, 50 HP sticks, the AFE e-mani & this turbo + custom tuning. Additionally, it has an ATS Arcflo, stock airbox, AFE torque tube, blankets on the exhaust mani & turbo plus 2 light weight pulleys. Motor wise thats it. Other mods include custom e-fans and fuel cooler, aluminum driveshaft, light weight OEM wheels (21# ea with 285-70-17's).

It all adds up to meet my goals of a fairly fuel efficient daily driver getting 20~23 mpg every tank depending on how I drive. Cant say enough about the $250 pulley swap that shaved just 2# of the front of the motor. I managed 20.2~3 mpg doing 75~8x on a recent road trip right after one of the pulley installs, and the bearing on that pulley was tight so there was added drag until it had a few heat cycles.

anyways, hope this helps...

What is the drive for most efficient turbo? There are some pretty cheap mods that will improve mpg if that is the goal...
Nothing really to add, just want to add this as a bookmark for me to read up on later tonight for a possible upgrade to my stocker next month. Sounds like a sweet setup Steve!

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 04:14 PM
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Save your money and Get a he 351, with the savings ditch the bd gt and get custom tuning.

06 4dr,dynamic stg 4,64.5/73/.91,steed speed,anarchy EFi,DDP 150% overs,fleece dual cp3ís,Fleece bypass,Fass 165,ARP 425ís,Manton springs/pushrods,pac brake,6" Carli,long arms, king 2.5's,WFO traction bars,35ís
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryp2nitE View Post
Even a 351 is laggier than a 341, thats why no one talked about efficiency when talking turbo upgrades. It’s a completely subjective way to measure a turbo.

Typically you don’t see many people complain about drivability until you go past a 64mm turbo. If I could start all over I’d probably do a sxe62 or 64.5 and eventually put a 480 under it. My 63mm HE351 is fine but it’s just as expensive in the long run.


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I wouldn't really say subjective. There are plenty of data sets that will measure a certain turbo's actual efficiency in many different areas. Its just that so few people do these or have the ability to do the measurements is why it is so difficult and lacks the information to back it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
this is as close as it gets now with what they offer. Back then they called it a stage 2.5

https://www.htturbo.com/product-p/4043600-1063.htm

these 2 bullet points are notable
-63.5mm FMW 7-blade Compressor Wheel <- They called it a 64mm comp wheel, not sure if they changed it or not.
-High Flow 10-Blade Turbine Wheel

Love the setup I have, 50 HP sticks, the AFE e-mani & this turbo + custom tuning. Additionally, it has an ATS Arcflo, stock airbox, AFE torque tube, blankets on the exhaust mani & turbo plus 2 light weight pulleys. Motor wise thats it. Other mods include custom e-fans and fuel cooler, aluminum driveshaft, light weight OEM wheels (21# ea with 285-70-17's).

It all adds up to meet my goals of a fairly fuel efficient daily driver getting 20~23 mpg every tank depending on how I drive. Cant say enough about the $250 pulley swap that shaved just 2# of the front of the motor. I managed 20.2~3 mpg doing 75~8x on a recent road trip right after one of the pulley installs, and the bearing on that pulley was tight so there was added drag until it had a few heat cycles.

anyways, hope this helps...

What is the drive for most efficient turbo? There are some pretty cheap mods that will improve mpg if that is the goal...
So this may be hard to put into words but we all know what these engines are capable of in terms of the amount of headroom left on the table for great performance, which is awesome and will usually also lead to better run ability, dependability, and even economy under the right combinations and tuning. A LOT of people buy these trucks, and diesels in general really, for these reasons and take advantage of what is left on the table from the factory because really, why not? There is so much room to make it what you want to make it to suit your wants/needs.

Instead of taking advantage of the great performance potential, I want to take advantage of the great efficiency potential. What can I give this truck that it will perform to its greatest efficiency potential. Every molecule of fuel being fully burned, every oxygen molecule being converted, no waste from any decisions from dodge's part on "what will suit 99% of people" or "well this part is 10% cheaper but it still will last 200k miles". We've got to remember also that its been 15 years since just the turbo that is currently in my truck (the he341) has been used. What leaps and bounds of engineering in just turbo and induction technology has come in those years. What would've cost $$$$ to manufacture then that may have brought it to peak efficiency may only be $$$ now. Just take a look at what the 6.7l is capable of now compared to when it first came out or even going back to the 5.9 which it was heavily based on with really only minor modern engineering changes over almost 30 years! I think it should be rather easy to incorporate some of these more modern engineering upgrades that are available since we have a crazy lucky advantage that the power train in these trucks has not changed much over the last 30 years. There aren't many vehicles out there that share some of the same parts in them from that long ago to this day just because it simply works.

I love that Steve here and a few other members here have taken FULL advantage of what was left on the table, squeezed out every drop of efficiency that there can be had in every area and are always looking for more, ya'll are crazy /rant. Simply put I want to give the truck what it wants and what it couldn't have 15 years ago and enjoy the nice MPG gain and slight performance gain that comes with it. Since we don't have engine dynos and labs, the closest thing I can ask for here is what you have, the pressures you see, the fuel system specs, fuel used overall, EGTs, ect.

I know that BD GT is not helping me at all, but it was free for me (came with), and actually has pretty "decent" defueling and timing. A crutch I can hobble on until I get custom tuning. I feel like for what little the BD GT does, I would see a much more noticeable difference in efficiency swapping "stock" sized turbos and possibly injectors than custom tuning at this point especially since I have an HE341.

Thanks again

2004 2500 QC SB 4x4 250k mi and counting
Bully Dog GT. Fass 95g LP. K&N Insert. Dynamic Trans VB. Leveling Kit. 285/65/17
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 12:30 AM
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ditch the k&N, or be ready to build an engine.

that said i'd call the guys at turbo resource in Lake Havasu AZ. thats what i'ma do when it time for mine to be freshened up.

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 02:28 AM
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Not an expert here, but what about putting a large s200 on?
Extremely quick spooling, limited top end. I imagine it would be perfect with tuning.
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