Anti-gel - Page 4 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
3rd Gen. Non-Powertrain Discussion of 3rd Gen Topics Not related to the Powertrain...NO ADVERTISING

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post #37 of 63 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 09:21 PM
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Lived in north Iowa for 15 years, I saw temps to -35 below an all I used was Power Service white bottle along with 2 stroke oil, from those who I know that did gel up it was from either buying diesel in one area that was not winterized and then drive in to an area that had very cold temps or flat out buying non winterized diesel and did not use anti gel additive.. Also be very careful if you run Bio Diesel in the wintertime, as I heard of many who had gel problems thus I always stayed away from Bio Diesel anytime the temp was forecast to get below 32 degrees..

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post #38 of 63 (permalink) Old 08-29-2019, 03:02 PM
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^Good call on watchin out for bio in the winter. An indicator is, if the pumps are filtered and the fuel appears to be coming out of the nozzle slower than it should, there may be some gellin going on.

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post #39 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Grit dog View Post
So since your truck gelled up once in 15 years in one of the coldest climates on the planet, it's bad advice?
ROFLMAO.....You even quoted the part about there being exceptions.
And, presuming you're an oil expert up there in the patch, maybe read up on different types of winter diesel. Some are #1/#2 blend, some are additives to #2.
I'm a shadetree diesel exspurt too. Have had diesels from the N Slope to SE AK, Cascades, Rockies, upper midwest. That about covers cold climates on this continent anyway. I've pre-emptively added anti gel additives a few times when record cold snaps and truck parked outside getting cold soaked, or driving from one climate to another but it's not necessary in the vast majority of conditions.
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^Good call on watchin out for bio in the winter. An indicator is, if the pumps are filtered and the fuel appears to be coming out of the nozzle slower than it should, there may be some gellin going on.


Yeah you assumed wrong, I work at a refinery. I engineer/program/maintain the the units that blend the diesel before it's loaded into the tanker trucks and hauled off to the stations. The lab that does cloud/pour testing on our fuels is a 30 second walk from my office. I don't need to read up on winter diesel, I do it for a living. I'll let you in on a little secret, there are far more than 2 diesel blends, well over a hundred in our system last I checked.

Oh, and biodiesel isn't sold in the colder months, it's blended in summer only. You are wasting your time with the highly scientific nozzle eyeball flow test. (PS- fuel is generally stored underground at most gas stations where it is much warmer and doesn't gel).


_
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Last edited by Kilowatt; 09-03-2019 at 06:01 PM. Reason: grammar
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post #40 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
Yeah you assumed wrong, I work at a refinery. I engineer/program/maintain the the units that blend the diesel before it's loaded into the tanker trucks and hauled off to the stations. The lab that does cloud/pour testing on our fuels is a 30 second walk from my office. I don't need to read up on winter diesel, I do it for a living. I'll let you in on a little secret, there are far more than 2 diesel blends, well over a hundred in our system last I checked.

Oh, and biodiesel isn't sold in the colder months, it's blended in summer only. You are wasting your time with the highly scientific nozzle eyeball flow test. (PS- fuel is generally stored underground at most gas stations where it is much warmer and doesn't gel).


_


Most stations around me and north of me in
Manitoba,Canada have above ground fuel tanks for diesel.
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post #41 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grit dog View Post
So since your truck gelled up once in 15 years in one of the coldest climates on the planet, it's bad advice?
ROFLMAO.....You even quoted the part about there being exceptions.
And, presuming you're an oil expert up there in the patch, maybe read up on different types of winter diesel. Some are #1/#2 blend, some are additives to #2.
I'm a shadetree diesel exspurt too. Have had diesels from the N Slope to SE AK, Cascades, Rockies, upper midwest. That about covers cold climates on this continent anyway. I've pre-emptively added anti gel additives a few times when record cold snaps and truck parked outside getting cold soaked, or driving from one climate to another but it's not necessary in the vast majority of conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grit dog View Post
^Good call on watchin out for bio in the winter. An indicator is, if the pumps are filtered and the fuel appears to be coming out of the nozzle slower than it should, there may be some gellin going on.


Yeah you assumed wrong, I work at a refinery. I engineer/program/maintain the the units that blend the diesel before it's loaded into the tanker trucks and hauled off to the stations. The lab that does cloud/pour testing on our fuels is a 30 second walk from my office. I don't need to read up on winter diesel, I do it for a living. I'll let you in on a little secret, there are far more than 2 diesel blends, well over a hundred in our system last I checked.

Oh, and biodiesel isn't sold in the colder months, it's blended in summer only. You are wasting your time with the highly scientific nozzle eyeball flow test. (PS- fuel is generally stored underground at most gas stations where it is much warmer and doesn't gel).


_
Thanks for the info and the insight!!!
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post #42 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Aburdett View Post
Most stations around me and north of me in
Manitoba,Canada have above ground fuel tanks for diesel.
Most refineries do too. If the fuel doesn't flow there, it won't flow at a gas station...


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post #43 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 08:59 PM
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So Kilowatt, are you saying anti gel additives are a waste of money? What’s your bottom line?
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post #44 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 09:43 PM
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I run Howes in all my diesels. My 3406E Cat,N-14 Cummins and my poor 5.9 CTD.
Using Howes has never left me on the side of the road. I have run all over North America doing Heavy Haul and been in some pretty frigging cold places.
And the beauty of Howes, If you buy it buy the case and you ever gell up, they will reimburse you the cost of the towing. And they put it in writing and in every case and even on the bottles.
Now that's somebody who puts their $$ where their mouth is. Wreckers ain't cheap.. LOL
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Last edited by ZeroFox; 09-03-2019 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Spell check & Fat Fingers
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post #45 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 09:47 PM
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So Kilowatt, are you saying anti gel additives are a waste of money? What’s your bottom line?
Not at all, as I said earlier I use them in my truck. Just trying to shed some light on the refining end of things as there is a lot of misinformation out there. The point I was trying to make is that fuel leaving the refinery must meet strict federal regulations and meet local environmental standards, a refinery can't just load up your fuel with bio diesel and sell it into a market that can't properly consume it. For example, our fuel gets certified down to -43C in winter before it can be sold, if it doesn't meet that spec it goes right back through the refinery. We don't add winter additives, it's the same all year round. It's the distillate blending variations that alter the cloud/pour point etc.

Unfortunately once that fuel leaves the refinery there is very little control over it. It could be diluted by retain in a tank truck or distribution tank, pipeline batch transport, existing fuel in the station's sales tank, and further more by the fuel in your vehicles tank. There are numerous other factors as well, and this is where additives can play an important role. I never had problems with my truck until I put the additional tighter filtration in the fuel stream. It's a crap shoot, you might be fine with no additive, but to say they are not needed at all is a bit short sighted and terrible advice on a public forum (IMO of course).

_
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post #46 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
Yeah you assumed wrong, I work at a refinery. I engineer/program/maintain the the units that blend the diesel before it's loaded into the tanker trucks and hauled off to the stations. The lab that does cloud/pour testing on our fuels is a 30 second walk from my office. I don't need to read up on winter diesel, I do it for a living. I'll let you in on a little secret, there are far more than 2 diesel blends, well over a hundred in our system last I checked.

Oh, and biodiesel isn't sold in the colder months, it's blended in summer only. You are wasting your time with the highly scientific nozzle eyeball flow test. (PS- fuel is generally stored underground at most gas stations where it is much warmer and doesn't gel).


_
Couple mis interpretations of what you interpreted my post to read. I never said there are only 2 diesel blends, you assumed that. I mentioned 2 ways to blend or treat for cold weather.
You're also assuming that noone could get some diesel with bio in it, in the winter. I whole-heartedly believe that up north. That would be suicide by gel.
However if you come down outta the great white north there, you will see that bio blends are still sold where it can and does get cold sometimes in the winter. There's actually a local station that does here and it has plugged up in the winter. Unless my employee was lying about where he bought fuel after the truck died 50 miles away and 40 degrees colder. (A person here, on the right day could go from +40F to 0 F or +30 to -20F in less than 1/4 tank of fuel if going from the coast to the mountains)
PS, pump mounted filters and hoses to get the stuff into your truck are not underground. Guessing they cool to ambient temp pretty quick once there's no fuel flowing through them?

Back on topic, since you do this for a living. Is fuel blended for winter temperatures where it's needed? Yes or no question.

07 5.9 Mega, G56, SB Single disk Ceramic clutch, OE 1 piece Al driveshaft, 60hp Industrial injectors, Triple dog, Glacier 2mic filter, BD exhaust brake, ATI Super Damper, BD steering brace, Firestone bags, Big Wig swaybar, 4th Gen 20s and some home made Stableloads.
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post #47 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroFox View Post
I run Howes in all my diesels. My 3406E Cat,N-14 Cummins and my poor 5.9 CTD.
Using Howes has never left me on the side of the road. I have run all over North America doing Heavy Haul and been in some pretty frigging cold places.
And the beauty of Howes, If you buy it buy the case and you ever gell up, they will reimburse you the cost of the towing. And they put it in writing and in every case and even on the bottles.
Now that's somebody who puts their $$ where their mouth is. Wreckers ain't cheap.. LOL
Lol, marketing at it's best. Of course anti gel additives will keep fuel that needs it from gelling and say you're a hot-shot driver or OTR trucker and you can fill up enough fuel somewhere warm to get somewhere really cold on the same fuel. You're absolutely the guy that needs it.
Wonderin how Howes makes you prove you added their juice? I mean couldn't you get towed in, walk across the street to the Napa Auto, buy a bottle, dump half in the garbage and phone them up?
Video it? Send them a fuel sample to test?
Remember, believe nothing you hear and only half what you see.

07 5.9 Mega, G56, SB Single disk Ceramic clutch, OE 1 piece Al driveshaft, 60hp Industrial injectors, Triple dog, Glacier 2mic filter, BD exhaust brake, ATI Super Damper, BD steering brace, Firestone bags, Big Wig swaybar, 4th Gen 20s and some home made Stableloads.
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post #48 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
Not at all, as I said earlier I use them in my truck. Just trying to shed some light on the refining end of things as there is a lot of misinformation out there. The point I was trying to make is that fuel leaving the refinery must meet strict federal regulations and meet local environmental standards, a refinery can't just load up your fuel with bio diesel and sell it into a market that can't properly consume it. For example, our fuel gets certified down to -43C in winter before it can be sold, if it doesn't meet that spec it goes right back through the refinery. We don't add winter additives, it's the same all year round. It's the distillate blending variations that alter the cloud/pour point etc.

Unfortunately once that fuel leaves the refinery there is very little control over it. It could be diluted by retain in a tank truck or distribution tank, pipeline batch transport, existing fuel in the station's sales tank, and further more by the fuel in your vehicles tank. There are numerous other factors as well, and this is where additives can play an important role. I never had problems with my truck until I put the additional tighter filtration in the fuel stream. It's a crap shoot, you might be fine with no additive, but to say they are not needed at all is a bit short sighted and terrible advice on a public forum (IMO of course).

_
And I agree with this, save for the last part where in my previous post you didn't consider the whole post but cherry picked part of it as an absolute recommendation for your response, not a conditional one. (Pretty sure I said there are exceptions.)
So a person "might" be fine? You make it sound like the odds are not in ones favor when the opposite is true. The odds are in a person's favor that the fuel will be fine because fine folks like you blended it for the season/conditions. The exceptions that you mentioned are the reason I said there are exceptions. "Crap shoot" implies more like a 50/50 chance of loosing.

07 5.9 Mega, G56, SB Single disk Ceramic clutch, OE 1 piece Al driveshaft, 60hp Industrial injectors, Triple dog, Glacier 2mic filter, BD exhaust brake, ATI Super Damper, BD steering brace, Firestone bags, Big Wig swaybar, 4th Gen 20s and some home made Stableloads.
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