Module- gateway - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Module- gateway

Trying to track down electrical issues (loss communication).

Trying to follow these wiring diagrams isn't that much fun.

What is this "module-gateway" they keep talking about? I can't find anything about it, but from what I have read about it....its the central hub that all the CAN bus communication goes through. So it seems to be pretty important to find it it to test it.

Do our 3rd gen cummins even have this gateway module? If so, please tell me where its at an anything else you know about it.

2006 Dodge 2500 5.9 megacab

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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Also ...what is this power train control module? I thought we only had the ECU on the side of the block (that incorporated a pcm...and tcm I think.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:41 AM
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http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2006/d...unications.pdf

This diagrams are universal. (Gas, SRT, others except SRT, Power Wagon, Diesel)

Gateway Module is SRT thing.
PCM is Gas thing.
ECM is a Diesel thing.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWong View Post
http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2006/d...unications.pdf



This diagrams are universal. (Gas, SRT, others except SRT, Diesel.......)



Gateway Module is SRT thing.

PCM is Gas thing.
Ok.

So then why do I have wires running to my obd2 on those pins? Is it just a universal harness too?

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:49 AM
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Ok.

So then why do I have wires running to my obd2 on those pins? Is it just a universal harness too?

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My guess is yes.

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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So last question.

If all of my can bus wires have continuity between connector a and B everywhere they go...but still no com....do I need to start checking power supply and grounds?

Is there a way to read the voltage on can bus to see what's actually talking or not?

Like can I back probe into the ecm can bus to see if the ecm is talking?


What's the difference between can + and can -? Will they both have voltage when talking?

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoiyay View Post
So last question.

If all of my can bus wires have continuity between connector a and B everywhere they go...but still no com....do I need to start checking power supply and grounds?

Is there a way to read the voltage on can bus to see what's actually talking or not?

Like can I back probe into the ecm can bus to see if the ecm is talking?


What's the difference between can + and can -? Will they both have voltage when talking?

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What's your issue, BUS DOWN?

Usually the causes are the integrity of the wires and the modules connected to the BUS.

The integrity of a wire includes the continuity from end to end and the insulation between touching wires.
The continuity should be less than 10 ohms.
The insulation should be over 100 Kohms. (Resistance between any two wires in a harness, including B+ power and ground wires).

Each module has its own resistance/impedance.
A short/defective module can bring down a BUS.

According to FSM, AFAIK, troubleshooting is done by isolation of a module, measuring resistance, check for short to B+, ground and other wire. Suggest to follow the steps from FSM. It's not that simple.

The CAN BUS is a comm network with two wires (can+/can-).
Usually it's a twisted pair of cable with grounded shield.

I think we can see what they are talking about by using a protocol analyzer. (It's an IT thing.)

You may see some signals with a voltmeter across the can+ and can-.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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What's your issue, BUS DOWN?

Usually the causes are the integrity of the wires and the modules connected to the BUS.

The integrity of a wire includes the continuity from end to end and the insulation between touching wires.
The continuity should be less than 10 ohms.
The insulation should be over 100 Kohms. (Resistance between any two wires in a harness, including B+ power and ground wires).

Each module has its own resistance/impedance.
A short/defective module can bring down a BUS.

According to FSM, AFAIK, troubleshooting is done by isolation of a module, measuring resistance, check for short to B+, ground and other wire. Suggest to follow the steps from FSM. It's not that simple.

The CAN BUS is a comm network with two wires (can+/can-).
Usually it's a twisted pair of cable with grounded shield.

I think we can see what they are talking about by using a protocol analyzer. (It's an IT thing.)

You may see some signals with a voltmeter across the can+ and can-.
My problem is rather severe.

Heres my history:

I rebuilt the cummins after it went down. Got it back together and it was in theft mode. I took it to a dealership and they found all kinds of problems. Replaced the ECM AND the TIPM and still some issues. They found the overdrive solenoid in the tranny was busted up and fluid got in the connector and started shorting everything out (ECM and TIPM for sure it seems).

I still have all kinds of issues though. My cluster wasn't working. Only showed Miles, fuel level, and volts...nothign else worked. As well as, no OBD2.

I dont even get the "No bus" on the cluster. I just bought a new (used) cluster (exact same part number) and installed. My injectors are being sent back to check for issues under warranty so I can't start the truck...but I checked the cluster with just key on. It doesn't show my gear indicator so im assuming I still have issues.

And my OBD2 isn't working.


I've tried to follow the FSM as much as I can, but the problem is, they want you to use the OBD2 port with a scanner to try isolating things. Well, that does no good if there is NO COMMUNICATION at all at the OBD2.

Had this problem for a few weeks now. The truck will run and drive down the road (I have injector issues though, which im not so sure are injector problems or electrical problems).

So essentially, I have to back probe every single thing.

It seems to be that everything is actually working just as it should, it's just not talking to anything at all. My blinkers, headlights, brake lights, etc all work fine. Truck shifts fine I think.


So my goal is to 1) Check the integrity of every communication wire. 2) check all of my 5v supplies and grounds 3) try to see if I can actually see if the communication lines are actually talking. I assume the messages are extremely fast and I won't be able to read an exact voltage, but I think if I put my dvom on there and it goes crazy all over the place....it would be safe to assume that module is talking. If I just get a flat volt reading then I can assume that its not talking....does this sound correct? I'm just making it up as I go right now.


So far, I've been able to track down most all of the CAN wires and they all have continuity and all the connectors seem good.

Today I'm going to track down the other numbers that were in the picture I listed. the SCI receive/trasmit. I was able to track it down to the connector on the floorboard under the pedals (think they informally call it the 100pin connector). It then travels to the big connector on top of the firewall roughly right above the engine. the big square one.

I'm not sure what the SCI is, but will look into it as well.

If no issues are there, then I need to assume that all of my CAN wires are in good condition, and need to start looking at why they aren't talking....possibly looking for a lack of ground/5v, or maybe a single module being down and not talking nor letting other communication bypass it.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 11:35 AM
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There are two CAN BUSES.

The first one is the one between TIPM and ECM, for engine control and ABS control, circuit D65 (can+) and D64 (can-), diagram 8W-18-5 and 8W-18-6.
If this BUS is down the truck should not start/run.

The second one is the one between TIPM and all the other modules, circuit D55 (can+) and D54 (can-), diagram 8W-18-3 and 8W-18-4.
How's all the other modules working???
If all of them or some of them are working then this BUS is not down.

The OBDII thing is on diagram 8W-18-2 and it's the CAN C thing only.
It looks like the SCI and PCI are on PCM which is NOT a diesel thing.

Are you sure the ECM, TIPM and cluster were programmed correctly for your truck, matching the VIN?

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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 11:40 AM
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If the CAN C DIAGNOSTIC electronics in TIPM doesn't work properly there will be no OBDII, I think.

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 11:50 AM
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I just posted my two cents.
Read them slowly, carefully, with the diagrams in front of you and think about it.
Then determine you move.
Good luck with that.

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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the feedback PWong.


I've been tracking down these wires as much as I can.

I think my issues mostly lies with the CAN C Diagnostic (informally called CAN D). I think that's my biggest issue. Unfortunately I don't think the wiring diagram will distinguish between regular CAN C and the CAN C Diag.


I do agree I don't think the bus is "down" at all. I think its quietly still working in the background. The problem is my cluster can't see it, nor can my OBD 2...which causes a lot of other headaches.

I was told several different ways about the TIPM and ECM needing to be programmed to match my VIN and miles and what not. The tech said it didn't need to be done, as well as the parts places I bought them from...all said they were plug and play. However, anybody you talk to online disagrees. The problem here though is, how could they possibly program them when they can't talk to them on the OBD2. Some more issues are at work here.
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