New Ram Cummins- and long distance running - Page 3 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
3rd Gen. Non-Powertrain Discussion of 3rd Gen Topics Not related to the Powertrain...NO ADVERTISING

 8Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:06 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis Rex View Post
Conversely I have a lot of good data for the 6.7, including measured in cylinder pressure data.



All Ram Truck based.



I could have used the BSFC map from the 6.7 for the 5.9 but wanted to do better.



Extracting the BSFC data and inputting into the simulation is a pain!



What kind of flow meters did you use? Coriolis type?
Infrared, electro optical

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Marquis Rex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Mid West
Posts: 18
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpitock View Post
Infrared, electro optical

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Very cool. Can that be set up to measure petrol flow rates on a gasoline car?

Ive always wanted to have a volumetric efficiency display in in my 1970 Challenger!

Living Life One Transmission At a Time
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marquis Rex is offline  
post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:49 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis Rex View Post
Very cool. Can that be set up to measure petrol flow rates on a gasoline car?



Ive always wanted to have a volumetric efficiency display in in my 1970 Challenger!
As long as it's clear or translucent liquid. Cannot be red. I have one on the send and one on return.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:59 PM
TECH SPECIALIST
 
steve05ram360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,221
Thanks: 529
Thanked 1,378 Times in 1,004 Posts
iTrader Score: 3 reviews
what signal does it provide? digital counter or analog?

I've seen some flow meters on-line that will handle diesel with a counter output. Some of them also come with a display to handle all the conversions.

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 50HP DDP , 420k, HPTuners, G56, 25.065 mpg, mpg threads ->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
steve05ram360 is offline  
post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 02:13 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
what signal does it provide? digital counter or analog?

I've seen some flow meters on-line that will handle diesel with a counter output. Some of them also come with a display to handle all the conversions.
Square wave output. I use a omega logger with it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 02:25 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
what signal does it provide? digital counter or analog?

I've seen some flow meters on-line that will handle diesel with a counter output. Some of them also come with a display to handle all the conversions.
dual post

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 03:14 PM
TECH SPECIALIST
 
steve05ram360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,221
Thanks: 529
Thanked 1,378 Times in 1,004 Posts
iTrader Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpitock View Post
Square wave output. I use a omega logger with it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpitock View Post
Square wave output. I use a omega logger with it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I understand... your just trying to get your message across...
cpitock likes this.

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 50HP DDP , 420k, HPTuners, G56, 25.065 mpg, mpg threads ->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
steve05ram360 is offline  
post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:56 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis Rex View Post
OK, I cant post pictures right now then, but I can post some of my simulation results.

The take away from my real world fuel economy results is this- On my other cars, normal cars, like Jaguars XJRs, VW Golfs etc- stop start driving usually brings the average fuel economy down and longer distance Highway driving brings the average up.

For the Ram diesel it seems to be the opposite- I think this is because of the immense frontal area of the truck and the poor drag coefficient- that driving it at speed kills the mpg.

FWIW the simulation shows exactly the same trend. It's best not to focus on the exact numbers of the simulation but to utilize it in terms if trends and then compare it to our real world experiences;

So I have

Stock Quad Cab Dodge Ram 2500 with 48RE , 3.73 rear end and 265/70 -17 tyres

Fed Highway sim avg: 20.94 mpg

Stock QC Ram 2500 with NV5600 ,3.73 RAR and 265/70-17

Fed Highway sim avg: 18.49 mpg
My problem with this result is that the Fed Highway doesn't utlise 6th and revs the engine quite high, more so than any driver seeking fuel economy would- so I would like to modify the shift schedule if possible

QC 2500 with 48RE, 285/70-17 tyres and a 3.42 rear end
Fed Highway: 21.35 mpg- Here you can see the effects of both the larger diameter wheels and the 3.42 rear end. I need to separate out the effects



Stock QC 2500 with 3.73 RAR and 265 tyres
running constant 75mph: 12.23 mpg

QC 2500 with NV5600 with 3.42 RAR
running constant 75mph: 13.51 mpg

QC 2500 with 3.42 RAR and 285/70 tyres
running constant 75 mph: 12.98 mpg

I know I need to separate some of these effects out.

Other notable assumptions- I used a drag coefficient of 0.56 as a guess. The SRT10 was 0.45, the stock 1500 is listed as 0.53 so I guessed at 0.56 due to the higher stance and I increased the frontal area accordingly.

I used 88% as average efficiency for the 48RE- most autos ( like the NAG1 Benz trans are low to mid nineties). Because this is derived from an old torqueflite_ assumed a low figure. This is probably a bit harsh of me but I'd rather be pessimistic.
I assumed the efficiency of the NV5600 at around 98% in direct drive top and 97% in 0.73 over drive ratio.

There's quite a lot of 'stop and go' in the Federal Cycle.

This is the cycle-

https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/hwfet.php

It doesn't really get up above 60 mph- which is why the figures look quite good.

The other factor is that for the BSFC map (break specific fuel consumption) for the 5.9 Cummins I used some measured data from a Semi Truck dyno data I had and some 8 mode test data I had I extrapolated the rest. Also the spec of he semi truck application of this engine isn't EXACTLY the same as the Ram pick up. In addition, when this BSFC data is derived- its steady state on an engine dyno, what a vehicle achieves when driving can be a bit different.
So I did some BSFC curves for part load. My truck ~55MPH, ~1600RPM (G56 w/275/70/18 and 3.73) will be around .588 lb/hp*hr and sip at 13.2 lb/hr of fuel. This is figured at 7 lb/gal of diesel. That puts mileage at 29 1/6 mpg, which is VERY consistent with what I see on an average day on flat ground @ 55MPH. So that's approximately 22.5 WHP to move down the road @ 55MPH.
Math for 65MPH @ ~1900RPM
lb/hp*hr = .495242
lb/hr = 20.188
MPG=24.27
WHP Required=40.76

The mileage is VERY consistent again to what I see in real world with MY truck.

Just throwing the numbers out there to you and maybe that will help with some other numbers you may not be finding.

2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 09:00 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I used .52 as Drag coefficient and 35.1 ft2 for my hp numbers so by changing to yours my BSFC numbers go wack and won't line up with the real world.

2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 09:12 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
My city mileage for the last 6 months was 18.69MPG over 6020 miles with about 600-700 of those miles being highway. Figured I would throw the mileage in for winter city as I finally started using technology to track mileage rather a pen and paper.

2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 06:44 AM
TECH SPECIALIST
 
steve05ram360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,221
Thanks: 529
Thanked 1,378 Times in 1,004 Posts
iTrader Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpitock View Post
My city mileage for the last 6 months was 18.69MPG over 6020 miles with about 600-700 of those miles being highway. Figured I would throw the mileage in for winter city as I finally started using technology to track mileage rather a pen and paper.
Thats weak dude... Weak....lol

I think your truck would like a fun road trip more often...

AFE PG7 drop in filter, AFE Torque Tube, HTT 2.5 turbo, AFE e-mani, ATS Arc Flo, 50HP DDP , 420k, HPTuners, G56, 25.065 mpg, mpg threads ->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
steve05ram360 is offline  
post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 12:11 PM
Diesel Freak
 
cpitock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 623
Thanks: 7
Thanked 45 Times in 44 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve05ram360 View Post
Thats weak dude... Weak....lol



I think your truck would like a fun road trip more often...
Yes, it's horrible, but that is only those data collection points. I'm probably around 18k total miles for the last 6 months.... winter is maintenance time for me, spring, summer fall are my driving seasons

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
steve05ram360 likes this.

2009 2500 CCSB G56 4x4, 3.73-Self tuned w/WARP 552HP & 1225 lb-ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 3 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Record MPG: 31.2MPG Average over deleted life: 24.4MPG Next Tank Goal MPG: 35
cpitock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome