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Missing oil

14K views 70 replies 25 participants last post by  jserman35 
#1 ·
I just changed my oil for the first time on my 3500. I'm a little worried because I'm missing a gallon of oil. That's right 4 quarts are just gone, I only recovered 2 gallons. I'm not sure if it was never properly filled from factory? With no MIL and no leaks whatsoever I don't know what the hell happened to 4 quarts of oil? I couldn't have possibly burned 4 quarts of oil with out a single MIL triggered. I have14k miles and I'm scratching my head wondering. The miles are all light load / no load and highway miles. Also changed the fuel filters and air filter. I was blown away with how disgusting the air filter was by the way.
 

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#2 ·
Hard to believe, but my guess is incorrect factory fill. From now on, check the dipstick before you do anything, so at least you know where it was and where to put it back to. 4 qyarts in 14K miles would show a trace on the floor or inside the tailpipe.

I have heard stories about how clogged the 2019 air filters are, after a few miles. I think the new air inductions system catches more debris and pushes it into the airbox a lot more that the last generation did. Those had the RAM active air that pulled air from behind the fender well area. The 19's get it from the front of the grill.

Question, how did you remove the oil filter? And did you use the mini drain tray under the filter? Also, when you opened the rear fuel filter, did more fuel drain all over the place (and you) or did the drain valve drain all?
 
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#3 ·
I use a fluted filter socket and a ⅜ ratchet from genos garage. Once the filter is removed I use a filter cap tool from genos garage (the best invention for cummins oil changes ever). I take the cap off pre fill my new filter and clean and attach the filter cap on and fish the new prefilled filter in the the engine compartment. Once in the frame rail I remove the cap and start screwing the prefilled filter on the engine. I also installed the femco drain plugs from genos garage. We run these drains on all of our bus fleets with over 1500 buses with Cummins ISL-G motors here in Southern California and they are amazing. Also the rear fuel filter drain did pretty decent. I captured 16oz of fuel but as soon as I started turning it more fuel did come spilling out. Next time I do it I will close the drain and turn it a few rotations and reopen the drain to help eliminate the additional diesel fuel leaking everywhere.

At this point I assume it was not properly filled from the factory. Moving on I know now that no matter what the air filter has to be replaced every oil and fuel filter change. You are right about the new air dam. But due to the increase on power I think that's why they may have wanted additional air to the engine and the previous ram air didnt cut it.
 
#5 ·
I have to ask: Was it low on the dipstick 14,000 miles ago, did it happen gradually, or did the oil disappear right before the oil change?

Also, was the oil drained hot or cold?
 
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#7 ·
Beat me to it......
 
#10 ·
This was the first time I changed the oil on this truck. The oil was drained cold and was full about a month or so ago just as it was full this afternoon after it was changed it. The truck has been in the shop several times too. I would have expected it to be checked then possibly too, the tech did sign legal documents stating to have completed a multipoint inspection which include enging oil check. I just can't believe I could possibly be missing 4qts and not have a single leak or check engine light. I'm still baffled.
 
#11 ·
If you drained it cold, that explains part of it. At least if you didn't let it drain for a really long time.
Also, did you count what was in the filter?

Not that I'd expect an entire gallon to go missing that way, but a couple of quarts would be feasible, I think.
 
#12 ·
FWIW, I've checked the oil on my 3500 and learned the first week of ownership that if the truck is on a very very slight incline, the dipstick will report 1 1/2 - 2 quarts low. Our driveway has a slight decline from the street but the slope decreases and is very slight at the garage. When I checked it, the front of the truck was pointed toward the street. Again the incline where I checked it is very very slight. I thought it was odd that it was low, so I checked it at a gas station and was normal.

My Ford isn't as sensitive.

So, it might report the opposite if it's on an decline. If the oil was added and then checked on an decline (rear higher), it could report full, even though it's slightly low.
 
#13 ·
I do check my oil on a slight decline so it is possible to be slightly off. But I couldn't imagine by that much. The oil filter did drain for about 20 or 30 minutes though. I only let the oil drain for 10 mins or so. After I filled the engine with oil it only showed full and not above the full line on flat surface. I was worried I over filled it after I poured the old oil into the new empty containers. I'll be paying a lot more attention to my oil level moving forward though. Especially next oil change too.
 
#16 ·
The oil filter did drain for about 20 or 30 minutes though.
Not sure how draining the oil filter is relevant to your concern. Besides, draining an oil filter can days upon days.

I only let the oil drain for 10 mins or so.
Not nearly long enough, especially if the oil is cold. I learned the following the hard way: The oil filter holds a quart. The top end of these engines will retain at least a quart when the engine is hot. That's why FCA (Cummins) recommends checking the oil level at least 30 min after shutdown. There is also a not insignificant amount of oil left in the bottom of the oil pan due to its design (the way it's stamped). Suffice to say, check the oil on a level surface and know where it's at before the change. If you check the oil right after shut down and it's half way up the safe zone on the dipstick, expect that mark to rise to full after 30 or more minutes. Drain the oil when it's hot and let it drain for at least 20 to 30 min! I don't think you lost a gal of oil. It was there all along.
 
#14 ·
Far more likely you got an oil burner on your hands. Rings never seated in. Boy toyed Cummins used for commute rigs run that risk. No broken in correctly.
May still have a chance, hook onto something high wide and heavy, 5er is the best. Head to the hills and try to pull its guts out every weekend 500 miles for a month.
Or there is a problem with the crankcase vapors emissions system.

These are machined filled and machine level checked at the Mexican factory. Checked again by human at the selling dealer before sold.

Put a piece of aluminum window screening across the front of the air intake
Check it and the dipstick often, especially spring and fall bug hatches

There is always about 1/8>1/4 inch of oil left in bottom of Cummins oil pan, way they're made and positioning of drain bunge. Oil filter on these will soak up a qt+- a tad.

Send in an oil sample to an oil analysis lab from this change and each change with the heavy pull breakin. See what wear metals the motor has.

Dip stick levels on these can vary a couple inches or more, depending on parking level, oil temperature, oil pushed up or pulled down in tube by crankcase pressure, viscosity drain back.
 
#19 ·
Edited
 
#21 ·
Zackolas, you said you assume low factory fill and then said it was full a month ago.
You got 2 gal out and put 3 in? And it read just full?
I think something got lost in the translation here, or it dumped a gallon in the last few thousand miles.
Just keep an eye on it and regardless of the sarcasm I just posted in the previous post, it is a good (not necessary) call to go work the engine and try to break it in, if it's actually using that much oil.
If it really used alot of oil in a short time, that's likely not rings, but check the turbo.
 
#25 ·
You're not going to get an MIL for oil consumption. My 2010 would use 1 gallon every 25,000 miles with Amsoil. Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40 is what Cummins recommends for engine oil. I would switch to that and see what you get next.
 
#27 ·
I suspect the oil out was measured by pouring it back into the containers in which the new oil came - then to be disposed of. My experience is there is a LOT of unused capacity in new oil containers - enough so that with a few other minor things the appearance that a gallon of oil is missing is greatly exaggerated. So, how did you measure that you got 2 gallons out?
 
#28 ·
It was measured by pouring into the 2 of the 3empty new containers. I had a whole container that wasn't touched refilling it with old oil. However I did change my wife's jeep ecodiesel for the first time yesterday after my truck was done and I was able to get all 8qts out of that into the empty new containers so I find that hard to believe. My oil pan only holds 15qts so I always empty it after I do an oil change on my truck before moving to the next vehicle.
 
#30 ·
I’d be darn if I’d run a 10w30 in a Cummins, didn’t work out very well in the 3 liter VM eco diesel for the first few years.
 
#38 ·
Did a dealer ever do a "first" oil change between 0 and 14k? It is OK that you are going by the 15000 schedule but you have to check it, even on a new truck. Did you ever check it?
All said and done you will never know what happened, and if you never got any low oil level lights you are probably fine there. So just fill it up and check it this time and see what you have going on , if anything.
 
#41 ·
My truck was in the shop a few times, once for 27 days so I'm not sure if they ever did an oil change or not. I had checked it and it always showed full. I always watch the oil pressure to while driving and it has always been between 38psi-55psi which is more than reasonable depending on the load. Sadly when an oil pressure light comes on due to lack of oil it is typically to late. Luckily I've never had an oil pressure light come on.
 
#39 ·
Ah - Ok - I get the same thing with gallon containers. They contain a lot of empty space. My guess is because pouring from a full container is a bit difficult - the oil comes out long before the neck is low enough to pour accurately. They are made oversize so that if you turn the spout to the upside when you pour, along with the empty space in the container, you get quite close to your funnel - or even for direct pour into the fill hole. I think you have no problem - the oil was there - you just 'overfilled' the containers when you poured the old oil in. I do the same thing all the time and get the same result as you. If you want to satisfy yourself now just get 3 new containers for your next oil change, and try pouring one of them into the other two. I think you'll get enough of the oil out of the one you empty to relieve your concern.

As to the jeep - can't explain that one unless you used Qt bottles - they are nearly full - no wasted space in them.
 
#42 ·
I used gallon containers for my wife's jeep as well because that takes an even 8qts/2 gallons to make it easier. I do agree there is a lot of empty space on the new oil containers so it could possibly be less that I was missing. I did fill the other containers to the brim. The containers I used for my wife's oil I didnt fill as much so that could account for 1 or 2qts possibly
 
#46 ·
I'm still trying hard to understand. Since new, the truck now has 14,000 miles on it but has never had the oil changed? During 14,000 miles of driving, you have never checked your oil level? When you went to change your oil, you neglected to pull up the dipstick and check the oil level before draining the oil?
 
#49 ·
OP regarding your air filter. Read p 126-127 of your Diesel Supplement.

Noise Control System Required Maintenance & Warranty
All vehicles built over 10,000 lbs. (4 535 kg) Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and manufactured for sale and use in the United States are required to comply with the Federal Government’s Exterior Noise Regulations. These vehicles can be identified by the Noise Emission Control Label located in the operator’s compartment.
Required Maintenance For Noise Control Systems
The following maintenance services must be performed every six months or 7,500 miles (12 000 km) whichever comes first, to assure proper operation of the noise control systems. In addition, inspection and service should be performed anytime a malfunction is observed or sus- pected. Proper maintenance of the entire vehicle will help the effectiveness of the noise control systems.

It goes on about checking the air filter and...........

FWIW
 
#50 ·
Check your oil level at least at every fill up of fuel while you are sitting there waiting on the pump. I maintain a fleet of Cummins powered equipment, trucks, and cranes. Your dealer is working flat rate, doesn't give a s about you or your truck. They would make more money replacing your engine under warranty. Every Chevrolet at my first job came from the factory at least a half to a whole quart low. EVERY SINGLE CAR EVERY SINGLE TIME. This was in 98. Think of the millions of dollars they save just slightly under filling each truck. Think about it. They know damn well your truck will run just fine 4 qts low. Think about how often they get away with it vs how often someone like you actually noticed. Kudos to you for noticing, but check your oil, no offense, at least once a week, regularly, and you wont have a mystery on your hands. That is all. Good luck dude I hope that is all that's wrong.
 
#51 ·
Check your oil level at least at every fill up of fuel while you are sitting there waiting on the pump.
Well........unless it takes :30 minimum to complete the re-fuel, an erroneous oil level will be the case.
 
#58 ·
Finally! Hey did you also take into account the relative humidity and ambient temperature because that plus the moon phase can effect molecular expansion of the petroleum elements thereby giving you a plus or minus factor of up to 1 US quart.
 
#59 ·
^^^^ What DOM said^^^<img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/CumminsForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
<img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/for
um/images/smilies/rofl[1].gif" border="0" alt="" title="Roll On Floor" class="inlineimg" /><img
src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/Thumbup19[1].gif" border="0" alt="" title="ThumbUp" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/Thumbup19[1].gif" border="0" alt="" title="Thumbs Up" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/lol3.gif" border="0" alt="" title="lol3" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/lol3.gif" border="0" alt="" title="lol3" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/lol3.gif" border="0" alt="" title="lol3" class="inlineimg" />

Never let anal retentive people touch a dip stick.<img src="http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/CumminsForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_crying.png" border="0" alt="" title="Crying" class="inlineimg" />

Or anything else for that matter! Haha!
If people are this anal, I wonder what do they do about real problems, like, say, an engine noise or something. 😯

Did you tie your shoes properly today? Did you wipe front to back.... or was it back to front....? 🤔🤣

I'm just teasing, have a great day yall, and even you poor souls with the rectal cranial disorder.
 
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#60 ·
All I know is that if I go check the oil in my Ram when it's parked overnight in front of the garage, it'll show 1 1/2 to 2 quarts low on the dipstick. If I drive it down the street to any gas station and check it a couple minutes after I shut off the engine, it's magically full.

Maybe if I wait 28 more minutes to check the oil, it'll start squirting out the dipstick tube. LOL.
 
#62 ·
Hey! If you’ve got the extra 28 minutes, give it a try.
My money would say that “it’ll show 1 1/2 to 2 quarts low on the dipstick.” Just like in front of the garage. That’s assuming both parking spots are level.

You may not be making oil ( $$$ ) and squirting it out the dipstick tube. But look at all the money you’re saving running your engine 2 quarts low.
 
#64 ·
Sensitive!? :surprise: NOT ME Everyone that knows me will happily testify to my being one of the most insensitive people they have ever met - and very tilted too - never known to have had a level headed thought in my brain. On the other hand there are quite a few that will assure you my dip stick has never been found to be dry or short. :grin2:
 
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#65 ·
Zinga,
FWIW, I would check the oil, per the Owners Manual, and then you would have a solid basis/measurement to compare to when you check the level in front of the garage. My concern at this point would be that if your current dipstick reading is anywhere close to being accurate and actually is 2 quarts low. That’s at the bottom of the hatch marks on the dipstick and the bottom of the SAFE range. The manual says at that point you should add oil.
 
#66 ·
Duh.

I already have, which is my point: Unlike other cars and trucks, the reading on the dipstick is overly sensitive to the level of the ground, compared to the other cars and trucks.

If I check it where it's parked, and it's at the bottom of the SAFE range, it's not low and I know that it does not need 2 quarts of oil. Why do I know this? Because if I drive it down the street to a gas station and check it, the oil level on the dipstick will be at the high end of the safe range. The readings on the dipsticks of the other cars doesn't change this much.
 
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