Will Ram Ever? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Will Ram Ever?

Build a 4500 pickup like Fords 450?


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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Floridamark View Post
Build a 4500 pickup like Fords 450?

Why? 3500 has the same 14000lbs gvwr
Slap some 4500 emblems and 19.5ís on a 3500 and your done.

The only cool thing about the 450 ferd is the wide track front axle

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 11:57 PM
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There have been a few sources that have said that the 5th gen will have a 4500 pick up version. So the wide track front axle and bigger brakes will be the biggest features.

'14 3500 SLT CCLB SRW 68RFE 3.42
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by robertyoke View Post
Why? 3500 has the same 14000lbs gvwr
Slap some 4500 emblems and 19.5ís on a 3500 and your done.

The only cool thing about the 450 ferd is the wide track front axle
Agree, that a 3500 Dually is pretty beefy, but you're mis-informed if you think the only difference is wheels.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by robertyoke View Post
Why? 3500 has the same 14000lbs gvwr
Slap some 4500 emblems and 19.5ís on a 3500 and your done.

The only cool thing about the 450 ferd is the wide track front axle
It's really the opposite with the Ford 450 pickup. They took a medium duty truck and slapped on a 14k GVW label.

Compared to Ford's 350 dually, which is equally beefy compared to a RAM 3500 dually, the F-450 does have the sharper turning wide front axle and 19.5" rims, along with 12-ply commercial tires that far outlast our 10-ply tires. But the Ford also has much larger brakes, and a significantly stronger rear axle.

You'll notice an F-450 pickup has less payload than an F-350 dually...and the reason is because the base truck weighs more.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 04:01 PM
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It's really the opposite with the Ford 450 pickup. They took a medium duty truck and slapped on a 14k GVW label.

Compared to Ford's 350 dually, which is equally beefy compared to a RAM 3500 dually, the F-450 does have the sharper turning wide front axle and 19.5" rims, along with 12-ply commercial tires that far outlast our 10-ply tires. But the Ford also has much larger brakes, and a significantly stronger rear axle.

You'll notice an F-450 pickup has less payload than an F-350 dually...and the reason is because the base truck weighs more.

Im aware of what ferd offers with 450, yes the frame is heavier, albeit still C channel < hydro formed tube.
I know they run a Dana 130 or 110 rear, older years vs the Dana 80 in the 350. This allows for the deeper 4.3 gears vs the 4.1. They run larger disks on the brakes. And there are probably some things I donít know about.

But again WHY? Itís still a class 3 truck maxed at 14k GVW, so you have more weight to tug around which means worse mpg higher maintenance cost and less payload.
Being the truck weighs more with the same GVWR means it tows less. Period! If these trucks were worn out by 100k or 200k like the old days then Iíd get it but most of these trucks will pull the max combined weight day in day out and still go easy 500k. What was rnoggle at here the last time he posted, 800,000 and counting on a 2011 3500 and the trucks have gotten better since then. And I add, with a 68rfe that was still original just fluid and filter changes that some on here claim to be just junk transmissions.

It would makes sense when/if the class ratings change and that might happen soon as the trucks just keep getting heavier and some ratings just donít make sense anymore. Take a ram 2500 with a diesel and itís a 8500 pounder with a 10k GVWR, just isnít making sense anymore unless because of some other outdated laws and how the truck is tagged/plated. Or some stupid state insurance laws class 2 vs class 3 trucks. A lot of those trucks are running around grossly overloaded because of that arbitrary number.

I donít get it but I dont get brodozers either, I guess I dont have a need to swing my **** anymore.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 04:24 PM
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Since 2017, all Super Duty pickups, including the F450, run a high strength fully boxed frame.

They use the Dana M300 rear end now. And as for axle ratio, it’s a 4.30 compared to a 4.10. The 19.5” tires are slightly taller than what’s on the 350 and so that offsets the ratio

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by troverman View Post

It's really the opposite with the Ford 450 pickup. They took a medium duty truck and slapped on a 14k GVW label.

Compared to Ford's 350 dually, which is equally beefy compared to a RAM 3500 dually, the F-450 does have the sharper turning wide front axle and 19.5" rims, along with 12-ply commercial tires that far outlast our 10-ply tires. But the Ford also has much larger brakes, and a significantly stronger rear axle.

You'll notice an F-450 pickup has less payload than an F-350 dually...and the reason is because the base truck weighs more.
Actually the F-450 is running the exact same moonbeam Dana m256 front axle as the F-350 drw except that it's a wide trac version and has a 7000lbs rating from ford vs a 6000lbs rating that the F-350 has.

The rear axle on both the F-450 and F-350 drw is the same Dana m300 except the F-450 has slightly bigger axle shafts that are needed to keep up the longevity to be on par with the F-350 (which is significantly less than the AAM axles that are on the Ram's) due to the heavier commercial tires, larger brakes, etc. There have been lots of rear diffs failing on the fords that hotshot whether that be 350's or 450's. The AAM's are much stouter, as well as the T-case and front end components.

The frame on the F-450 is the exact same as the F-350 and both have a different frame than the F-450 chassis cab. The F-450 has the same leaf spring pack as the F-350 drw and they are garbage compared to the Ram 3500 as the Ford's squat so badly even with 1500lbs of tongue weight. It's actually a joke how bad they squat. The 2017+ squat just as bad as they 11-16's.

So I disagree with the statement that they took a medium duty truck and slapped on a 14k rating. The specs state that they took a light duty truck and slapped on commercial tires/wheels, a wide trac front axle and bigger brakes. The Ram 3500 has stronger running gear and a better leaf spring pack with optional helper air bags from factory than an F-450.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Next Truck

This will be my next truck!

With the DD13
505HP
1850 lb-ft
Good for 1,000,000 miles.
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2019 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn w/factory air bags.
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Last edited by Floridamark; 11-12-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 06:46 PM
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This will be my next truck!
That's one sweet truck!

'14 3500 SLT CCLB SRW 68RFE 3.42
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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And I will be pulling one of these.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 07:00 PM
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And I will be pulling one of these.
Those ATC's are nice looking trailers! Is that one yours?

'14 3500 SLT CCLB SRW 68RFE 3.42
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