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Srw or Drw?

26K views 235 replies 46 participants last post by  Gone2Farr 
#1 ·
I expect to buy a new 3500 HO with aisin today. Only unresolved issue I have is srw or drw? Crew cab 8' bed, four wd, tradesman.

I will be towing up to 16000 lbs worth of a 1994 four star living quarter horse trailer, three horse. 37' overall length, 28' on floor.

I want the aisin transmission but have never had a drw and don't know if I will need that for stability on the highway or if the new srw 3500 will be as stable with that weight?.

Looking forward to thoughts on this.
 
#9 ·
Dually. A big boxy and substantial trailer like that and you will thank yourself the next time you hit a stiff crosswind on I-40 in Oklahoma, on I-10 over the Mississippi, or on the Roosevelt Mid-Hudson bridge. I'm sure other members will have their favorite places.

Yes, a dually is more work to live with. But once you get used to it, the only real hassles are the bank and fast food drive-thrus you have to avoid.

JMHO
 
#11 ·
I think DillonJM asked the right question - the answer to which points the OP in the right direction. The replies favoring the DRW are of the sort get enough truck to do the job - (aka, no gun is too big) - hard to argue against that. But I think, by the very nature of the question the OP already knows that. The OP also knows he'd experience disadvantages to a DRW - what he needs to figure out is, in his case, is there a quality solution - quality meaning, "meets requirements". Personally, I advice the OP not yet jump on the DRW solution - he does not want a DRW if it is NOT necessary (too big a gun is sometimes left behind and you find yourself without a gun when you need one). OP's prior experience, which DillonJM asks about is relevant. If his prior truck was DRW, and he's wondering if it's practical to drop down to a SRW, it's likely marginal at best. If his prior truck was SRW and marginal, it is possible a new SRW would do the job .

So with all that ing - something totally unrelated scratched one of my nerves today - let me add another possibility. Very likely converting to 19.5" wheels would give him a SRW truck without the negatives of a DRW, and seems to me a pretty good option/solution/improvement/backup plan to make the SRW fit the job 100% of the time, without having to drive a DRW 100% of the time.
 
#12 ·
If you read the other thread similar to this, I'm on the SRW side of things, would only buy a DRW if I absolutely needed it. It just depends...do you need the payload that the DRW offers? nlol and DillonJM have the best feedback above...
 
#14 ·
Having pulled some of those before for customers, I can guarantee ya that the pin weight can get brutal fassssttttttt when loaded up, due to the trailer axles being so far rearward.

But, then again......I’m just a dumb ol’ truck driver.:grin2:
@Jimmy N.
 

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#17 ·
Dang, Brockman, that trailer is at least 5 feet longer than mine, and likely heavily optioned, too. No pun intended.

Having the axles back where they belong sure makes it tow nicely, but, I wouldn't want to try pulling it with a SRW.
One of these days I should find out how much weight it puts on the drive axle. It's a lot, that I do know.
 
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#19 ·
If you look hard enough.....you can tell that this one has one slide out under the awning. There was another slide out on the opposite side, for a total of two. Ol’ White Lightning handled this one with ease, as it was a brand new unit ($75,692 invoice) and was dry but I could see it getting way out of RAWR on a few trucks.

32’3” floor and 40’3” overall length, 4 horsey, electric jacks, blah blah blah.
 
#18 ·
The desire to under-buy these trucks is certainly a strong one. Even though this is a SRW or dually question it Helps me understand the massive popularity of the 3/4 ton class trucks and how frequently the are purchased and used when a one-ton would have been the better choice.

According to the OP’s post the truck has already been purchased.
I hope he reports back with a follow-up and a few pics of his new truck (with trailer attached).

Keep us posted Montana and good luck with the new truck. :thumbsup:
 
#22 ·
You want a towing joke? Watch all the 1500's pulling large trailers. Way worse than overtowing a 2500 as it is far, far more common.
This is what we see commonly on our roads. Seeing the newest RV's getting shorter, lighter,(cheaper) and with more features (expensive) so any common SUV can pull it with airbags, etc.

Noticing a lot of the new units hover in the 4-5K dry weight range so salesmen no longer need to ask if you have a half ton, or a 3 quarter ton.
 

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#23 ·
Thanks for the advice and opinions. I also heard from a friend of mine that has a very similar trailer just ten feet longer, same brand and design. He originally towed it with a drw f 450, he got rid of that and got a srw f 350 and claims it is just as stable but gets around better. He said the drw often searched for a lane on rutted roads.


I ended up purchasing a new 3500 Cummins four wd crew cab long box srw tradesman for $45,000 with no trade in. Chrome package cloth seats, ho with Aisin. Not sure how good of a deal I did or did not get but felt it was the best I was goin to do.

I read the advertised tow rating at 25150 and payload at 4420.

My trailer loaded a few years back was 14300 with a tongue weight of 3910 both weighed by the previous owner.

I previously towed it with a 98 2500 Cummins four wd quad cab short box five speed with a pac brake. I only went as high as fourth gear even though it has the power to pull in fifth. I have an 02 automatic 2500 quad cab long box four wd but did not want to tow it with the 47.

My biggest concern was stopping ability loaded. I never experienced any real problems with wind as I can just slow down for that. Trains get blown off the tracks around Livingston Montana, so I would say we have plenty of wind.

Appreciate your experiences and guess I will find out mine.
 
#26 ·
Advertised payload capacity: 4420 (not door sticker)
Pin weight: 3910 (weighed by prior owner)
32 gals fuel: 224
driver: 200 (just a guess)

=> 4420-3910-224-200= 86 lbs

Some would say it's too close for comfort and others will say it's just fine. I see two potential flaws: trusting the prior owner and not looking at the door sticker.
 
#27 ·
SRW Will work set up correct. You must know the GVRW and Pin Weight before you go buy.
I have 2014 SRW 3500 crew w/8’ bed purchased to pull a 38’ 17,000 pound camper with 4,800 pin weight. The truck was purchased with this in mind. Dealer helped with equipment selection.
But you are hauling horses. Considered a live load since horses can shift the CG as they move. So I go DRW.
 
#29 ·
I’m running with an 18 3500 CC SB SRW ho Aisin and air ride. My 5’er is 16k with 3800 lbs pin. No wondering, no understeer, no oversteer, no swaying. The ride is rigid Braking is seamless (set it up right) and steering is solid. Make sure to choose the right tires (commercial grade would be my choice) make a huge difference. I’m going to be running 285/70/18 which is slightly wider than the 275/70/18. Only reason is I can get 4080 lb compared to 3680 on the 275’s.

Good luck. I think you will be fine with what you purchased. I will say that the DRW is more stable than the SRW. I tried both and the SRW won out because it is my daily driver as well. If I were just pulling with it SB DRW all day long......
 
#30 ·
We have a 3 horse, 19.5 short wall with slide. My biggest concern with a SRW was a tire failure on the rear with the pin weight going down the highway which is why we went with a DRW. At the end of the day it is what you're comfortable
 
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#32 ·
I ended up going HO Aisin w/DRW & 4.10 axle. Short of acceleration, it drives the same whether empty or fully loaded to ~29k.

I don’t mind the wide hips on it, as it isn’t a daily driver. But shoot if they made a factory spec’d 3500 SRW with G tires and a commensurate GCWR On the sticker, I’d sure be willing to try it out.
 
#34 ·
I do my own research before shopping and then want to be left alone at dealerships to look myself until ready to test drive something. I have found over the years that most sales people dont know much if anything about their vehicles. Their lack of preparation or attempt to learn their own products is disgraceful. I already know what I'm looking for before I even go for the most part. In my case I tow 16k lb toyhauler when loaded for desert, less when hitting campgrounds. A drw would be great I'm sure but my 3500 srw is within limits and has no issues pulling, maneuvering or stopping and crosswinds dont affect a 5th wheel like a tow behind. Truck is a daily driver not a dedicated full time tow truck and in So Cal a drw would be a huge hindrance. It's not about driving or parking skill it's about convenience and space.
 
#35 ·
Been kind of lurking here for a few years and this post made me think about if I would trade the duallie in for a SRW.
I started with an 04 2500 SLT 5.9L CumminsHO quad cab 4x4 to pull a 36' 5th wheel trailer from Oklahoma to Alaska. First time pulling that much of a trailer. Stopped in Utah and mounted air bags and redistributed weight. Driving thru Canada found out what breakfade was, felt like the old truck song "Wolfcreek Pass" except we didn't end up in the side of a feed store. Got to Alaska and began the mods. Dealer installed a Jake Brake since I didn't want to do anything to void the warranty. After that began the mods, Banks programmer, 4" exhaust, intercooler, transmission built, ect, ect, ect. Made the trip back to OK a few years later no problems. Finally getting ready to leave OK, hooked up trailer went to move it out of storage area, trailer wheels sunk into mud, Me thinking no problem I'll just put it into 4 lo and give it a pull, Well it pulled the trailer pin right out of the receiver and dropped the trailer on the bed of the truck. Tourettes kicked in and after i calmed down i found that I forgot to lock the receiver.
Long story Short my wife says why don't you get a new truck(Love that lady):party018:. Now 16 3500 DRW Tradesman, all the extras I had to add to the 04 this thing puts it all to shame. Back in Alaska now after making that same trip. Was sooo much less stressful to have the right rig. But some of the time I wish I had the SRW. Parking up here can be a big hassle and tire replacement $$$$

Now I want a new toy!
 
#37 ·
Haha, perhaps a better correction, “living in So Cal is a massive hindrance”

Born and raised there and finally had the good sense to leave 12 years ago. Never looked back.

Nowadays, I bring care packages filled with cheap grocery bags when I visit family there. I also fill my transfer flow 100 gallon in-bed tank in Yuma to skip the eye-watering fuel taxes.
 
#42 ·
Srw is the way to go: I have a 2006 3500 4x4 5.9 Srw, long bed, crew cab with Pack Brake. I have been pulling a 16,660 pound 5th wheel RV all over the US for about two years now. Recently upgraded from a 12,000 pound 30 foot fifth wheel. We are full-time RV’s 15+ years. New trailer has 3,660 pound pin weight. Currently running the stock wheels with 70R-17 firestone trans force HT‘s. Have 7,220 lbs on rear axle loaded. That puts me 415 pounds over maximum rating for each rear tire. Not that bad, with well maintained air pressure and quality tires I can live with that. Rear axle is rated at 8000 pounds. I run Nitrogen in all four tires. Nitrogen filled tires run cooler and psi does not increase much at operating temperatures. I fill the rear tires 5 to 10 pounds over the maximum rating of 80 pounds to better handle the extra weight. This is much better for the tire with less sidewall flex. I learned of this many years ago from someone wiser that I. I’ve been following this practice for over 30 years of heavy hauling with single rear wheels and never had any tire or wheel issues. On my old truck, a 1980 Ford 3/4 ton 4x4, I did have two aftermarket chrome steel wheels crack between the rim and valve stem hole due to flexing. Caught it quickly though and replaced all four with 16-inch 4000 pound Alcolas. Never had another issue. Currently looking to upgrade Dodge 3500 to Vision 4500 lb HD 81 Heavy Hauler Single Series Machined Wheels and HD 4500 lb Goodyear tires. When I started looking for a new truck I wanted the biggest baddest Dodge duly I could find. Then I did a bit more research, talked to friends, X truckers, and found a duly was overkill for my purposes. I couldn’t be more happy with my SWR truck.
 
#43 ·
Srw is the way to go

Nitrogen filled tires run cooler and psi does not increase much at operating temperatures.
Darn it, now I should get rid of my DRW. And then the toyhauler that weights too much. Oh well.

But more importantly, why is it that so many believe that somehow Boyle's Law doesn't apply to nitrogen?
 
#45 · (Edited)
This has become apples to oranges. Sure, DRW is the way to go towing heavy day-in and day-out. No one debates that. It’s more stable. Period.

The discussion point then becomes what each individual needs.

The truth data is this:

GAWR as defined by RAM on SRW is defined solely by tire ratings.

The AAM 11.5 (staple of SRW for many years—I think the new 3500s potentially have the 11.8 which has a higher rating) is rated to almost 11,000# by AAM.

Guess what isn’t rated that high—tires. Let’s assume you put a good set of tires on that are rated roughly 4000#/tire. You’ve put yourself at a rear axle weight (sustainable) of 8k. This is non-commercial tires.

Unloaded with a gooseneck (20k rated, ~35’) the rear axle weight is roughly 4K (3900# with my old setup).

This means that you can potentially put another 4K on that rear axle and stay under the actual safety rating of your weakest component (the tire—-OR the wheel if you cheap out on this end—commonly overlooked).

So, assuming you factor in a 15% hitch weight which is about optimal on a gooseneck—let’s just call it 20% because people are dumb and a safety margin is a good idea, you can throw roughly 20k on that gooseneck and be fine. Similar numbers for a 5th wheel.

As long as you have a good trailer brake setup and your rig is in good health this is about where I see reasonable being.

If you look at Ram’s current tow ratings for a SRW, it shows they factor in about a 15% load factor on the rear tires so my numbers are conservative.

Again, sure a DRW is more stable and nicer to tow with, but it doesn’t always fit everyone’s needs. Especially those that DD their rigs more than tow.

Sidebar- I think we’ve hit about the limit of what you’ll see a MFG rate it’s SRW to tow for exactly the reasons I’ve described above. Not that their ratings are safety derived up to this point— they are warranty driven.
 
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#46 ·
The AAM 11.5 (staple of SRW for many years—I think the new 3500s potentially have the 11.8 which has a higher rating) is rated to almost 11,000# by AAM.
I recall seeing those ratings sometime ago as well, but cannot, for the life of me, find them now. I recently tried a few days ago, trying to help out a guy over on TDR.

Would you by chance have a link? I snooped around on the demandaam.com site and found nothing....
 
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