CP4 Thread - Page 14 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
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post #157 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 01:18 AM
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So far, the CP4 failure rate on this forum is 0%? Is that correct?
0% failure rate isn't good enough for an internet forum. It needs to be at least -10% until it's a non-issue with the non-owners.

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post #158 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 09:59 AM
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Does this one not count?
Nope, we are only counting the 2019+ Ram Cummins.
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post #159 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 10:03 AM
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ITS. NOT. FROM. BAD. FUEL. Jesus, research it. Lack of lubricant in our diesel, air in pump...dry starts. My insurance company had my fuel tested when my Duramax's CP4 took a ...came back super clean. I'll send you the report if you'd like.
Isn't a lack of lubrication considered bad fuel?

It's funny that some CP4 pumps have hundreds of thousands of miles on them. For such a bad pump, I wonder how that is possible?

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post #160 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 10:16 AM
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Same as everything else. Some Cummins engines make it to a mile miles other dont cross 100k. Nothing is perfect.
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post #161 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 11:15 AM
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Same as everything else. Some Cummins engines make it to a mile miles other dont cross 100k. Nothing is perfect.
I remember when people were talking about the 'bad injectors' on the third gens. Some people were replacing them at 60,000 miles and others were getting 300,000 out of their injectors.

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post #162 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 11:49 AM
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So its possible the same will happen with cp4.
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post #163 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 12:10 PM
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So its possible the same will happen with cp4.
Yup, that's my guess. It would be interesting to know, for sure, what the CP4 failure rate was/is on each vehicle with 100,000 miles or less on the odometer. Even a 2% failure rate would eventually generate a lot of forum attention.

For example, if there are 100 forum members with a 2019 Cummins, at least two people should experience a failure within the first 100,000 miles to maintain that 2% failure rate. Obviously that kind of data will take a few years before statistics will present themselves.

I have a strong suspicion that Ram and Cummins independently and jointly did the math. The advantages of using the CP4 must of outweighed the disadvantages, which is why they went with the CP4. Neither brand is in the business to jeopardize their reputation or their profits.
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post #164 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 12:12 PM
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The forum poll will will always be skewed towards fault. Most people only come when they have an issue.

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post #165 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 12:59 PM
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The forum poll will will always be skewed towards fault. Most people only come when they have an issue.
100 % Correct......

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post #166 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 12:58 PM
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ITS. NOT. FROM. BAD. FUEL. Jesus, research it. Lack of lubricant in our diesel, air in pump...dry starts. My insurance company had my fuel tested when my Duramax's CP4 took a ...came back super clean. I'll send you the report if you'd like.
Isn't a lack of lubrication considered bad fuel?

It's funny that some CP4 pumps have hundreds of thousands of miles on them. For such a bad pump, I wonder how that is possible?
You could say that, but that means all the diesel fuel in the U.S. is "bad fuel". Our diesel #2 here doesn't have the lubricant that diesel #1 does in other countries. These pumps are made by bosch in Europe and the pumps aren't failing there, or Canada, etc. You are right, most of them dont fail and I never heard of it until it happened to me and I was forced to drop $9k on a new fuel system and the dealership said they do about 1 a month. Then it happened to 2 other ppl I know personally. If it was just a $2k repair we wouldn't care much. But with around 600k LML Duramax's on the road and a 5% failure rate, there are 30,000 owners out the with $10k repair bills. Then there's Ford...
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post #167 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 03:29 PM
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You could say that, but that means all the diesel fuel in the U.S. is "bad fuel".
That would be incorrect. Bosch has said that their pumps and injectors meet the U.S. ASTM fuel, which is why some pumps last a very long time. What can’t be guaranteed is that the diesel fuel that you pump is free of contamination or that it fully meets the lubricity of ASTM fuel.

Here’s what the ASTM International said concerning the issue:

“High on his list of future D02 challenges are those involving contamination and compatibility. As refining moves farther from where fuel is actually sold and used, and more fuel is being used, the amount shipped over larger distances increases. So the longer it’s on board a vessel or in a tank or distribution network, the more opportunity there is for it to change and deviate from its specification or to be contaminated. He also expects that environmental targets will introduce ever higher levels of renewable-source material to fuel blends, “which, experience shows, can cause unexpected problems,” he says. “And how these trends affect standardization is that the scope of some methods — what they are able to measure — may no longer be appropriate, so new methods need to be developed or old methods need a revamp and new precision.”

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post #168 of 192 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 03:33 PM
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This is also a good read:

QUESTION: The “Change Fuel Filter” indicator lit up while I was towing an equipment trailer over the Sierras with my ’15 GM pickup, which has about 70,000 miles on it. A couple minutes later, the engine lost power, leaving me stranded. The dealer says the CP4 injection pump failed for some inexplicable reason. The $8,500 in repairs to replace the fuel pump and injectors and flush the fuel system is covered under warranty. Are there any upgrades that can be done to ensure this doesn’t happen again when the truck is out of warranty?


ANSWER: CP4.2 injection-pump failures happen, just as failures happen to any part that has exceptionally tight working tolerances under high loads. Such failures are usually the result of poor fuel quality, low lubricity in the fuel, contamination, or the result of cavitation from running out of fuel. The injection pump essentially grinds itself to failure. When a CP4.2 pump “grenades,” the metal debris from its internals finds its way through the fuel-pressure regulator and into the rails and injectors, and back into the tank. That pump works extraordinarily hard pulling fuel from the tank and supplying the high rail pressures for the injectors to work. One of the common upgrades to ease the minds of those who have fears of CP4.2 pump problems is to install a pressure regulator that does a better job filtering the fuel before it reaches the rails and injectors. Exergy Performance offers an inlet metering valve for the ’11-to-’16 6.6L Duramax LML product called the System Saver (PN E05-10505), which filters down to 25 microns using a double-layer stainless mesh, whereas the stock single-mesh screen filters just 80 microns. The upgraded fuel-control actuator (FCA) assembly that is part of the CP4.2 doesn’t prevent fuel pump failure. It only mitigates the damage caused by metal debris circulating through the entire fuel system before the engine shuts down. The company claims the finer stainless-steel screen of its FCA traps more pump debris and contaminants sooner, plugging and shutting down the engine before extensive damage is done to the rest of fueldelivery system—but it does help keep the repair costs down compared to staying with the stock FCA. Beyond that, you can take some of the workload off the CP4.2 by installing an aftermarket lift pump/filter system, which helps ensure the fuel getting to the pump is as clean as possible at the same time. Keep in mind: Contamination of fuel and the lack of proper lubricity in ultra-lowsulfur diesel are the common killers of CP4 fuel pumps. A CP4 uses a lower volume of fuel than its CP3 predecessor, so its internals are getting less lubrication. The way to be proactive in protecting a CP4.2-equipped diesel from an early demise is being diligent about using fuel additives that add lubricity with every fill-up. Ideally, you want diesel fuel with a lubricity that meets the minimum ASTM standard of 520 microns High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (wear scar) rating. HFRR is currently the internationally accepted, standardized method to evaluate fluids for lubricating ability. This is a very important number when it comes to diesels running ultra-low-sulfur fuels that don’t have very good lubricating properties without dosing with an additive. The larger the number, the poorer the lubricity. The poorer the lubricity, the quicker the road to pump failure. If you can, use a fuel additive that lowers the HFRR of the fuel into the 300s. Additives such as Opti-Lube’s XPD or XL have shown some of the highest lubricity improvements in comparative testing.

Source: Diesel Power Magazine, April 1, 2019

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