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Grid heater failure 2500 6.7

16K views 50 replies 18 participants last post by  Wowegner 
#1 ·
Grid heater burned up, alternator goes bad, and batteries. All under 2k miles. After parking truck I smelled something burning and popped hood. Saw the smoke, closed hood and went to closest dealership. Otw there the engine light came on, battery light, and started losing batt voltage. When arrived to dealer, truck was completely dead. They couldnt get it started. Been sitting for 7 days. Horrible service with dealership so far. Filed case with ram care the day I dropped it off. Going to dealership in the AM. Probably will end up towing it to a different dealership.
 

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#2 ·
In all fairness, a failure that bad so soon is either part of a larger problem... and FCA wants to see examples....or something unique... and FCA may want to look at it anyway. Is the dealer talking to you about it or just giving you excuses?
 
#3 ·
I heard from dealer yesterday and they said I would get photos and video of the bad part. I didnt receive anything so that's why I'm going by in the morning. Only update I received was from ram care because they had to call. This was 7 days ago when I dropped it off. I was only wanting an update on what went wrong. I can understand that FCA wants to see what's going on, but at least have enough respect to keep the person that paid for the vehicle in the loop.
 
#6 ·
the grid heater seats underneath the intake horn. There was probably arcing going on underneath there where it burned is my guess. You can find photos and other posts online that will show more. That was the quick pic i got at dealership when I dropped it off.
 
#12 ·
I bet some wires chafed or rubbed on something. Had a similar issue with a Kenworth that came in the shop, battery cables rubbed on exhaust pipe. Cause a fire and a bunch of other issues.
 
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#13 ·
UPDATE: went to dealer this morning and looked at the old grid heater. Stud and bolt still there, all white and oxidized, but still there! They are going to put new grid heater, new alternator, and new batteries. Should have truck back tomorrow they're saying. I'll keep yall updated if any problems come back, or changes made.
 
#15 ·
Hopefully they figured out what caused the grid heater to do that. If not, it will happen again.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Grid heater failure

2019 Ram 3500 big horn with 3500 miles, on July 9th had the same problem, dealer replaced alternator and batteries then went dead and ruined 2 more batteries. Found the grid heater and relay bad and to receive them today. They were in contact with star to tell them how to fix and said they hadn't heard of this problem before. So now I guess they have may be a bigger problem so we will see. Stopped at dealer this morning and are putting back together but don't know when it will be done as they have had it for a week an a half.
 
#18 ·
Update: picked up truck today from dealership. I noticed they replaced the heater solenoid also. Seems to be driving normal for now. However, when shutting off the truck, the motor shakes and wobbles more than it did before. I could be crazy but I dont remember it that noticeable before. Gonna compare with my buddies 3500. Overall just happy to have my truck back. Time to drive it and put that warranty to work! Btw...ram cares has been awesome. Really the only way I was able to get updates, and they are covering 1 month of my truck payment. Very impressive.
 
#21 ·
Guess what? Truck is back at dealership for the second time! Only had it back for 13 days. Put around 300 miles on truck since I got it back. Was heading to a job site today, and battery light kicks on, radio shuts off because backup power kicks on and I find myself headed to dealership. Same error codes as before. I will contacting my Ram Care rep in the AM. This is getting ridiculous. I know my lemon laws here in my state, and FCA is about to know who I am. Dont let those dealerships push you around guys. We work to hard to pay this kind of money and be left with a sitting vehicle.
 
#23 ·
I do feel sorry for you guys. But I also can't deny that reading about the various issues the '19s seem to have, I get even more attached to my '17.

Which, by the way, has the grid heater cable tied off to the coolant reservoir. It rarely goes below -20 here, so I don't really need a functional grid heater.
 
#26 ·
How did you get them to cover your truck payment?[/QUOTE] I had an issue with the N49 tie rod recall on my 2012, a dealer said I didn't need, which I knew was crap. I did need it. Tie rod snapped when I was going to work one morning. Long story short, I contacted someone high up within Chrysler. Explained what happened, and they covered two of my payments. I would search for email addresses and phone numbers of top level management within FCA.
 
#27 ·
Also told him I will not buy another Ram, I will buy a Ford the next time. .
 
#30 ·
It took how long for the dealer to figure out the grid heater failed in the 'on' position and tortured the charging system???:doh:
There was a recall (or at least a TSB) on a bad batch of grid heater relays quite a while ago <wink-wink> But I'll assume the dealer knew nothing about that either.

Anyhow,
It would take about 15 or 20 minutes to do this...
After the dealer replaces everything yet again (in a blind attempt to fix the problem) DONT start the truck until you disconnect one of the two heavy wires on the grid heater relay under the hood. (FCA calls it a Relay-Intake Air Heater)
The wire you want to disconnect is the one that feeds the grid heater itself, (not the one coming from the battery).

Once its disconnected & secured, start the truck.
(Yes it will start & run just fine without a grid heater), then hop in and scroll your instrument cluster to the "Battery Voltage" reading. If it's 12 volts or lower then the Body Control Module may also be smoked. It must be changed and re programmed.
But first...

The Intelligent Battery Sensor module (on the driver's side battery Negative terminal) may also be damaged. The tech should test (or replace) it before replacing the BCM.

Once you get a healthy reading on your dash volt meter (with the engine is running) it's time to proceed to test the function of the Relay-Intake Air Heater (or R-IAH)...

With the engine running take a voltmeter and look for 12+ volts from ground to the two heavy studs on the R-IAH. One stud should be hot and one dead. If they are both hot with 12+ volts then there is a malfunction!

Next you will need to disconnect either of the thin wires that go to the R-IAH relay. That should in-turn disengage the R-IAH thereby making one of the two heavy studs dead, (zero volts to ground).

So look again for 12+ volts to ground on the heavy studs of the R-IAH. Only one stud should be hot. If both studs are hot then the R-IAH relay has failed in the 'on' position and should be replaced.

If however the R-IAH relay does NOT have power on both studs after you disconnect one of the thin wires mentioned above, then the R-IAH is ok but the Power Train Control Module is telling the grid heater to stay on when it should NOT be on!

At this point it gets too lengthy to proceed here in text but at least "you" can tell the FCA Tech what the problem is (and he can hopefully grasp it).
<cough-cough> :rolleyes:

1.) I find it hard to believe that the Tech would change all those parts in your intake air heater system and NOT do the above 15 minuet test BEFORE he made the final connection and returned the truck.

2.) Fascinating how I am NO mechanic, I've never owned one of these trucks before, and yet a moron like me was well aware of this defect (and how to address it)... but FCA was not aware??? :confused013:
Completely ridiculous.

3.) These grid heaters fail and blow engines because they are commanded to stay on far too long, sometimes continuously as you drive until the entire charging system is damaged... or you drop a grid heater bolt into the engine and then...
. . .knock, knock, knock, knock, BOOM! :rof

Sorry for the painfully long post, but damn that was fun!
Time for my meds :food012:
Regards,
-Ej-
 
#32 ·
Fascinating how I am NO mechanic, I've never owned one of these trucks before, and yet a moron like me was well aware of this defect (and how to address it)... but FCA was not aware??? :confused013:
Completely ridiculous.

-Ej-
But Ej, while you are very well versed on the old, no, let's make that ancient, Gen 4 setup,
this is a completely different thing.

This, I am told, is a completely new vehicle, a Gen 5 at the very least, possibly even a Gen 8.
Anyway, it is superior in every way and shares little or nothing with the venerable Gen 4.

You can't just apply old school methods, including common sense and logic, to this fine new machine. The dealer techs know that. I'm surprised you didn't.
 
#33 ·
The thought of having my truck tied up for weeks on end while the dealership throws parts at it (by following their handy flow-charts)...
meh, I'd rather just stay 'old-school' and stumble thru it myself.

Besides, the Cumminsforum.com crew is here to help me thru the confusing stuff, (& beer helps too). :thumbsup:

Shown below:
My Local FCA Service Manager. . .



His (flow-chart ready) Tech Staff. . .



-Ej-
 
#34 ·
Was just told by dealership rep, that you cannot delet the grid heater or else the truck wont start??..I know these guys are just filling a position, but arent dealerships supposed to be knowledgeable about these motors? They are telling me know it is an ABS module that's not shutting off. Anyone know of any dealer ever deleting this part for them? Or only aftermarket?
 
#35 ·
Was just told by dealership rep, that you cannot delete the grid heater or else the truck wont start??..
I know these guys are just filling a position, but arent dealerships supposed to be knowledgeable about these motors?
They are telling me know it is an ABS module that's not shutting off.

Anyone know of any dealer ever deleting this part for them?
Greetings @Slappnbass :beer
A few items come to mind. . .

1.) A car dealer's job is to sell cars.
The service department's job is to sell service.
Fixing your truck (especially for free) is not what they are honestly there for.

2.) It is against State & Federal law to alter the emissions system on your vehicle, therefore the dealer couldn't legally remove (or delete) your grid heater even if he wanted to.

3.) The truck will run fine (from a mechanical standpoint) without the grid heater. Industrial versions of the Cummins 6.7L engine do not even have a grid heater, however it would be against the law to run "your" truck without it.

4) The grid heater's purpose is to reduce white smoke at cold startup, (temps below 60F).

5.) If your grid heater is removed (or disconnected) after two start cycles your truck will throw a MIL (malfunction lamp), but it will start and run fine.
. . . . Reconnect the grid heater and after 4 start cycles the malfunction indicator lamp will go dark again and all will be dandy.

Pictured below is a grid heater...



Closing thoughts. . .
* The more you understand how your vehicle functions the more your service department will hate you.

* Most of these trucks will run fine with the grid heater in place so dont over-worry it. :thumbsup:

* Keep this in mind...
I wonder what the long term effects to the down-stream emission components are if you run the truck without the grid heater, especially for those of us that live in cold climates. Is there a possibility that running without the grid heater may shorten the life of the CAT & DPF. :confused013:

Regards,
-Ej-
 
#37 ·
My thoughts would be when I'm priming new fuel filters, or reading odb data on a cold engine the heater cycles every time I turn ignition to the on position.

Would be a sh** design if it was....
 
#38 · (Edited)
@Drle
The grid heater only cycles on temps below 60F.
Even in cold winter weather the PCM does NOT keep constant power on the grid. It cycles power to the grid so it doesn't burn up the grid or your electrical system.

It's about 90F here today and I have not run my truck all day, thus I will put a clamp-on ammeter on the grid heater cable and do a remote (key fob) start and watch what the PCM does when it's left to its own devices.

I'll have an answer for you shortly...
-Ej- :beer
 
#39 ·
Here is the test I just did to help answer your questions. . .

Its 90F outside.

My truck has not been run in 24 hours.

I placed a DC ammeter on the grid heater power feed cable and started the truck.

I used the remote-start key fob function to start the truck so the PCM could do as it pleases with the grid heater (without interference from me).

I started & ran the truck and the grid heater never turned on at any point in the test!

My advice is to always change your fuel filters on warm days, at least above 60F. :thumbsup:

Your thoughts on all this?
-Ej-
 
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