My deleted truck makes me smile! - Page 3 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
2013-2018 General Discussion General Chit Chat About the 2013 model year differences 6.7L 4th generation Cummins - NO ADVERTISING - Sponsored by: StarLite Diesel

 21Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 10:13 AM
Diesel Head
 
tsconver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 15
Thanked 163 Times in 154 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by browningr6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsconver View Post
What is in it that is toxic? Def is urea and is what you pee out everyday. Nothing toxic about it.


If urine is non-toxic then how come they don’t pipe urinals into the local water source?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can drink urine if you really want to or had to. Urine is not good for you because of the bacteria that can be in it. Urea is not toxic.


73 K4CTD
2018 2500 QC SB Laramie - stock for now
2005 2500 QC SB, Rebuilt at 330K miles, Sold

tsconver is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
Cummins Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 268
Thanks: 15
Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsconver View Post
You can drink urine if you really want to or had to. Urine is not good for you because of the bacteria that can be in it. Urea is not toxic.


Lol I’m just busting you.. I’ve always heard you can drink your own but nobody else’s... not willing to try either! I’ll stick with my water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
browningr6 is offline  
post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:04 PM
Diesel Head
 
pwr2tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A-Vay-Up-Nort. U.S.A. 116*F summer 2007, -48*F winter 2018/2019.
Posts: 2,818
Thanks: 379
Thanked 212 Times in 175 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Urea and urine are two totally different substances.

You can survive on urine.

You will die if you drink urea.

It's a free country, well not so much anymore, we have to protect the stupid instead of natural selection doing it for us. LOL
frankss likes this.

Black 2018 Laramie 3500, MC, DRW, 4WD, H.O. Cummins, Aisin, 3:73 gears. Towing a 2017 Torque 325 Toyhauler, 39', pin weight 2,370, GVWR 16,250, GCW 23,870 goosebox hitch. Retired, sort of.
pwr2tow is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:19 PM
Diesel Head
 
tsconver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 15
Thanked 163 Times in 154 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwr2tow View Post
Urea and urine are two totally different substances.

You can survive on urine.

You will die if you drink urea.

It's a free country, well not so much anymore, we have to protect the stupid instead of natural selection doing it for us. LOL
I am a chemist by training and know what I am talking about. Urea is made by your body as a waste product, filtered out by your kidneys and is a major part of the resulting urine you secrete.

Urea levels in urine are directly related to protein consumption and kidney health.

73 K4CTD
2018 2500 QC SB Laramie - stock for now
2005 2500 QC SB, Rebuilt at 330K miles, Sold

tsconver is offline  
post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:32 PM
Diesel Head
 
pwr2tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A-Vay-Up-Nort. U.S.A. 116*F summer 2007, -48*F winter 2018/2019.
Posts: 2,818
Thanks: 379
Thanked 212 Times in 175 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsconver View Post
I am a chemist by training and know what I am talking about. Urea is made by your body as a waste product, filtered out by your kidneys and is a major part of the resulting urine you secrete.

Urea levels in urine are directly related to protein consumption and kidney health.
You're only mentioning one type of urea.

Urea is an organic chemical compound, or the waste produced by the body after metabolizing protein. But since 1828, German scientist Friedrich Wöhler invented the process to create the synthetic version of urea. In 1870 the process of producing urea through dehydrating ammonium carbamate under conditions of high heat and pressure was invented. So yes, urea can be obtained from urine, but lets find out why Diesel Exhaust Fluid is not just urine and water.

I will be comparing the material data sheets of both automotive grade urea vs human urine.

According to wikipedia, “Human urine is an aqueous solution of greater than 95% water, with the remaining constituents, in order of decreasing concentration urea 9.3 grams/L, chloride 1.87 grams/L, sodium 1.17 grams/L, potassium 0.750 grams/L, creatinine 0.670 grams/L and other dissolved ions, inorganic and organic compounds.” Read the full descriptionhere.Diesel Exhaust Fluid uses automotive grade urea, at 32.5% concentration. This urea contains , 0.3% Biuret maximum, 0.5 % magnesium max , 0.5 % calcium max, 0.5% phosphate max, 0.5% iron max,0.5% potassium maximum.

When comparing the two there are various differences:

Human urine only contains 9.3 grams per liter of urea concentrationHuman urine also contains chloride, sodium , potassium , creatinine and other dissolved ionsHuman urine is 95% water, which is also full of ions and minerals

The water needed to create Diesel Exhaust Fluid has to be de-ionized and de-mineralized , a process that only a highly specialized filtration machine can achieve.



From all this information we can conclude that even though urine has urea, it is not the correct concentration nor does it have the purity needed. The water that comes from urine is also full of ions and minerals which make it very low quality water.



Diesel Exhaust Fluid is highly concentrated and very pure urea plus de-ionized water .The standards for Diesel Exhaust Fluid are very specific and can be foundhere.

I hope that this blog has been informative, highlighting the differences between urine and Diesel Exhaust Fluid.Please do not urinate in your DEF tank, the SCR system will be damaged and it will cost thousands of dollars to repair.

I won't drink either one. LOL

Black 2018 Laramie 3500, MC, DRW, 4WD, H.O. Cummins, Aisin, 3:73 gears. Towing a 2017 Torque 325 Toyhauler, 39', pin weight 2,370, GVWR 16,250, GCW 23,870 goosebox hitch. Retired, sort of.
pwr2tow is online now  
post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:40 PM
Diesel Head
 
tsconver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 15
Thanked 163 Times in 154 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwr2tow View Post
You're only mentioning one type of urea.

Urea is an organic chemical compound, or the waste produced by the body after metabolizing protein. But since 1828, German scientist Friedrich Wöhler invented the process to create the synthetic version of urea. In 1870 the process of producing urea through dehydrating ammonium carbamate under conditions of high heat and pressure was invented. So yes, urea can be obtained from urine, but lets find out why Diesel Exhaust Fluid is not just urine and water.

I will be comparing the material data sheets of both automotive grade urea vs human urine.

According to wikipedia, “Human urine is an aqueous solution of greater than 95% water, with the remaining constituents, in order of decreasing concentration urea 9.3 grams/L, chloride 1.87 grams/L, sodium 1.17 grams/L, potassium 0.750 grams/L, creatinine 0.670 grams/L and other dissolved ions, inorganic and organic compounds.” Read the full descriptionhere.Diesel Exhaust Fluid uses automotive grade urea, at 32.5% concentration. This urea contains , 0.3% Biuret maximum, 0.5 % magnesium max , 0.5 % calcium max, 0.5% phosphate max, 0.5% iron max,0.5% potassium maximum.

When comparing the two there are various differences:

Human urine only contains 9.3 grams per liter of urea concentrationHuman urine also contains chloride, sodium , potassium , creatinine and other dissolved ionsHuman urine is 95% water, which is also full of ions and minerals

The water needed to create Diesel Exhaust Fluid has to be de-ionized and de-mineralized , a process that only a highly specialized filtration machine can achieve.



From all this information we can conclude that even though urine has urea, it is not the correct concentration nor does it have the purity needed. The water that comes from urine is also full of ions and minerals which make it very low quality water.



Diesel Exhaust Fluid is highly concentrated and very pure urea plus de-ionized water .The standards for Diesel Exhaust Fluid are very specific and can be foundhere.

I hope that this blog has been informative, highlighting the differences between urine and Diesel Exhaust Fluid.Please do not urinate in your DEF tank, the SCR system will be damaged and it will cost thousands of dollars to repair.

I won't drink either one. LOL
Never said to pee in your tank, someone posted up that the urea for our SCR was toxic and bad for the environment. That is completely wrong. Urea in DEF and in your urine is the exact same compound but as you posted at different concentrations. I simply said that it was not toxic and that if you had to you could drink it. Would not drink a lot of it but it is not toxic. Again if you drink enough water it will kill you as well, the MSDS for water lists a toxicity for it.

That was my only point.
Gr8bawana likes this.

73 K4CTD
2018 2500 QC SB Laramie - stock for now
2005 2500 QC SB, Rebuilt at 330K miles, Sold

tsconver is offline  
post #31 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:45 PM
Diesel Head
 
pwr2tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A-Vay-Up-Nort. U.S.A. 116*F summer 2007, -48*F winter 2018/2019.
Posts: 2,818
Thanks: 379
Thanked 212 Times in 175 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsconver View Post
Never said to pee in your tank, someone posted up that the urea for our SCR was toxic and bad for the environment. That is completely wrong. Urea in DEF and in your urine is the exact same compound but as you posted at different concentrations. I simply said that it was not toxic and that if you had to you could drink it. Would not drink a lot of it but it is not toxic. Again if you drink enough water it will kill you as well, the MSDS for water lists a toxicity for it.

That was my only point.
Just for my future reference you are saying the synthetic version of urea is the same non toxic as humane/animal urea?

Black 2018 Laramie 3500, MC, DRW, 4WD, H.O. Cummins, Aisin, 3:73 gears. Towing a 2017 Torque 325 Toyhauler, 39', pin weight 2,370, GVWR 16,250, GCW 23,870 goosebox hitch. Retired, sort of.
pwr2tow is online now  
post #32 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:50 PM
Diesel Head
 
tsconver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 15
Thanked 163 Times in 154 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwr2tow View Post
Just for my future reference you are saying the synthetic version of urea is the same non toxic as humane/animal urea?
Yes it is. Urea is CH4N2O. It is a solid that melts at 271 degrees and is readily soluble in water. Does not matter whether your body makes it or it is made by a chemical company.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Urea

73 K4CTD
2018 2500 QC SB Laramie - stock for now
2005 2500 QC SB, Rebuilt at 330K miles, Sold

tsconver is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to tsconver For This Useful Post:
pwr2tow (08-21-2019)
post #33 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:56 PM
Diesel Head
 
pwr2tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A-Vay-Up-Nort. U.S.A. 116*F summer 2007, -48*F winter 2018/2019.
Posts: 2,818
Thanks: 379
Thanked 212 Times in 175 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsconver View Post
Yes it is. Urea is CH4N2O. It is a solid that melts at 271 degrees and is readily soluble in water. Does not matter whether your body makes it or it is made by a chemical company.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Urea
Thank you.

Black 2018 Laramie 3500, MC, DRW, 4WD, H.O. Cummins, Aisin, 3:73 gears. Towing a 2017 Torque 325 Toyhauler, 39', pin weight 2,370, GVWR 16,250, GCW 23,870 goosebox hitch. Retired, sort of.
pwr2tow is online now  
post #34 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 05:01 PM
Diesel Head
 
pwr2tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A-Vay-Up-Nort. U.S.A. 116*F summer 2007, -48*F winter 2018/2019.
Posts: 2,818
Thanks: 379
Thanked 212 Times in 175 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwr2tow View Post
Urea and urine are two totally different substances.

You can survive on urine.

You will die if you drink urea.

It's a free country, well not so much anymore, we have to protect the stupid instead of natural selection doing it for us. LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsconver View Post
I am a chemist by training and know what I am talking about. Urea is made by your body as a waste product, filtered out by your kidneys and is a major part of the resulting urine you secrete.

Urea levels in urine are directly related to protein consumption and kidney health.
Yup my mistake, urea and urine are the same. Thank you. Since urea is 4 times concentrate of urine then would it not be safe to say drinking urea will kill yah?

So the rest of my original comment is correct.

Black 2018 Laramie 3500, MC, DRW, 4WD, H.O. Cummins, Aisin, 3:73 gears. Towing a 2017 Torque 325 Toyhauler, 39', pin weight 2,370, GVWR 16,250, GCW 23,870 goosebox hitch. Retired, sort of.
pwr2tow is online now  
post #35 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 05:32 PM
Diesel Head
 
tsconver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 15
Thanked 163 Times in 154 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Drinking a.small amount of def is not going to kill you drinking a large glass probably gonna make you puke. Drinking a jug who knows but even water can kill.you if you drink too much. It has a ld50 listed.

73 K4CTD
2018 2500 QC SB Laramie - stock for now
2005 2500 QC SB, Rebuilt at 330K miles, Sold

tsconver is offline  
post #36 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 05:32 PM
Cummins Nut
 
sthrnromr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Yes, The South
Posts: 327
Thanks: 25
Thanked 34 Times in 28 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Page 1 - My deleted truck makes me smile

Page 3 - Drinking urine is ok in moderation.

sthrnromr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome