Banks power and Diff cover - Page 11 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
2013-2018 General Discussion General Chit Chat About the 2013 model year differences 6.7L 4th generation Cummins - NO ADVERTISING - Sponsored by: StarLite Diesel

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post #121 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Saintly View Post
Actually Charles is sort of correct. When servicing the rear wheel bearings it is recommended practice to grease them for initial lube so as to avoid failure due to dry run. The bearings will eventually get lube from gear oil slosh during "tipping" and turning.

Also the grease will not harm or contaminate anything.

.
I usually put a little gear oil in the bearing cavity thru the cage before installing the axle shafts. I started doing that after I toasted a set on an 3/4 ton Chey I had many moons ago.

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post #122 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlesinGA View Post
I bought a 2003 2500 tradesman (std cab, long bed) with a 5.9HO and 6 spd, back in February. The truck had absolutely no mods and was just about 100% original, including the 15 year old Damiler-Chrysler batteries, and only had 86K miles on it. One of the few things I did, was on the recommendation of a co-worker, was to install the Mag-Hytec cover. I kinda questioned raising the fluid level to the topmost point (touching the bottom of the axle shafts) and even called Mag-Hytec about this. Anyhow, after seeing the Banks videos, I decided to remove the cover and switch to the AAM/Mopar p/n 68149259AC cover kit. Best price I could find was thru Summit Racing, they simply order from Chrysler dealer they have a deal with, and it is drop shipped to the customer. I installed the cover and began to wonder about the bearings in the hubs, which are grease lubricated.

I pulled the axles and hubs (took a hydraulic press to break the rotors off the hubs, no damage, just enough rust on the rotor to lock it tight) and found NO grease in the bearings, just gear lube. All of the grease was washed out. With the stock cover, or the AMM aluminum one, the bottom of the fill hole is at least half or three quarters of an inch (or more) below the outside of the axle tube. Figuring the thickness of the tube, and then the fact the hole in the middle of the spindle is probably a good inch above the inside bottom of the tube, AAM designed this so fluid never reaches the hubs.

I carefully repacked the bearings with Amsoil Moly fortified grease using a bearing packer, good throughly filled bearings and lots of grease all around, installed new seals and axle gaskets and added the 4 qts or so of Amsoil 75W90 gear lube to the differential.

I related all of this to you to warn you, if you remove a cover where you have been running the high fluid level, with the intention of returning to the stock level, you need to pull the hubs and clean and repack the bearings, and replace the seals. You will probably suffer early bearing failure if you don't.

At least the bearings were USA made Timkens that AAM installed, and not China junk.

Charles
Itís a full floating axle, itís supposed to be lubed with the gear oil from the differential. A little grease wonít hurt but a lot can alter the oil a bit.

This is why I say people shouldnít work on their own vehicles unless they know what they are doing. Hell at least google the procedure first.

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post #123 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 10:51 AM
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I have the OEM factory shop manuals, and CAN read. It says pack the bearings with grease prior to installation. Not sure why everyone equates full floating axles with the bearings being wet lubed. AAM placed the fluid level well below the point where it could enter the hub, I seem to recall it says the bottom of the fill hole to ľ inch below the hole, this is way below the point at which the fluid could enter the hubs and the fluid level actually goes down when the ring gear is spinning, as so much fluid is in circulation around the ring gear. Watch the vids.

I'm done.

Charles
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post #124 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesinGA View Post
I have the OEM factory shop manuals, and CAN read. It says pack the bearings with grease prior to installation. Not sure why everyone equates full floating axles with the bearings being wet lubed. AAM placed the fluid level well below the point where it could enter the hub, I seem to recall it says the bottom of the fill hole to ľ inch below the hole, this is way below the point at which the fluid could enter the hubs and the fluid level actually goes down when the ring gear is spinning, as so much fluid is in circulation around the ring gear. Watch the vids.

I'm done.

Charles
Charles, I've watched all of Gales "scientific" differential cover videos and I'm not sure what you saw that I didnt, but by no means did he reveal anything in those videos factual or accurate. They're merely marketing videos meant to instill fear and doubt in those who dont fully understand what the videos depict. I'm actually sad that you ran out and spent money because of those videos too...
I guess Gale is better at this consumer confidence thing than I gave him credit.

Yes, full floating axle bearings are lubricated by the differential fluid. They are "wet" bearings and rely on the hypoid action to throw the fluid up the tubes so that the wheel bearings dont starve for lubrication. But dont worry because as long as you're close to the fill mark your bearings "should" be fine...

And anyone who believes that a mere 1/2" of fluid is going to cause foaming in a differential where the ring and carrier are already submerged...I've got some pixie dust to help you get to never-never land where you'll believe anything.
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post #125 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesinGA View Post
I have the OEM factory shop manuals, and CAN read. It says pack the bearings with grease prior to installation. Not sure why everyone equates full floating axles with the bearings being wet lubed. AAM placed the fluid level well below the point where it could enter the hub, I seem to recall it says the bottom of the fill hole to ľ inch below the hole, this is way below the point at which the fluid could enter the hubs and the fluid level actually goes down when the ring gear is spinning, as so much fluid is in circulation around the ring gear. Watch the vids.

I'm done.

Charles
No need to be "done." I can see where the wheel bearing grease will help before the gear oil gets down to the bearings. Every full floating axle shaft I have removed always had gear oil in the hub area for the bearings.

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post #126 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintly View Post
Actually Charles is sort of correct. When servicing the rear wheel bearings it is recommended practice to grease them for initial lube so as to avoid failure due to dry run. The bearings will eventually get lube from gear oil slosh during "tipping" and turning.

Also the grease will not harm or contaminate anything.

.


Well I never said he was wrong buy putting grease on wheel bearings. I was just pointing out that the wheel bearings do in fact get lube from the diff .

Iíve seen people use grease on wheel bearings but me personally, I rather just lube them up real good with gear oil. Much easier to make sure itís all in the bearing then trying to make sure the grease got all though the bearing. Did that on my fathers truck and two years later the bearings are fine.


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post #127 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KATOOM View Post
Charles, I've watched all of Gales "scientific" differential cover videos and I'm not sure what you saw that I didnt, but by no means did he reveal anything in those videos factual or accurate. They're merely marketing videos meant to instill fear and doubt in those who dont fully understand what the videos depict. I'm actually sad that you ran out and spent money because of those videos too...
I guess Gale is better at this consumer confidence thing than I gave him credit.

Yes, full floating axle bearings are lubricated by the differential fluid. They are "wet" bearings and rely on the hypoid action to throw the fluid up the tubes so that the wheel bearings dont starve for lubrication. But dont worry because as long as you're close to the fill mark your bearings "should" be fine...

And anyone who believes that a mere 1/2" of fluid is going to cause foaming in a differential where the ring and carrier are already submerged...I've got some pixie dust to help you get to never-never land where you'll believe what I believe....
I fixed your typo for you......

sam

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post #128 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 04:35 PM
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I fixed your typo for you......

sam
Sam are you speaking in 3rd person again...
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post #129 of 278 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 01:49 AM
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Those are nice, but it’s always a good idea to just take a look inside just in case. My friends Jeep. Just doing a fluid change and oh oh. Didn’t feel or hear anything before hand. Stuff just happens!



Sheared bolts that came loose over time.
Sorry to have chimed in late on what has *probably* been the cause of your friends Jeep differential issue(s).

By the looks of it - that's your friends front axle Dana 30, with what appears to be an ARB or Yukon Zip air locker. Looks like the two piece carrier bolts have backed out/snapped etc. Also, I don't see evidence of thread locker on those carrier bolts that backed out.

The most common reason for the D30 ARB or Zip two piece carrier bolts to back-out is not enough carrier preload when setting it up.

Lots of gear guys are not familiar enough with the inherent quirk of the D30 to require lots of carrier preload and typically using a good case spreader when setting up the gears and installing the ARB or Zip.

Also, looks like the carrier bearing cap was ground unnecessarily towards the top right edge.

Even with a great gear pattern during set-up, the inherent quirk of a Jeeps front D30 and the housing flex it is sometimes subjected to, causes the housing to flex and if there's not enough carrier preload, the ARB or Zip carrier bolts will snap, back out etc like your friends did.

Seen this way too many times while working on Jeeps and on the forum I moderate (Jeep Forum).

BTW, I have a '17 Ram 3500 CTD 4x4 dually with AAM 11.8 rear axle. It's got a stock rear diff cover. Maybe I'll upgrade the rear cover at some point.
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post #130 of 278 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 06:34 PM
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Hey Joe, thanks for the info! He bought it used, but I'll pass on this info. to him.

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post #131 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 08:46 AM
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Here it is....I know, all fake data...Banks has no idea what he is doing....all marketing fluff!

https://youtu.be/vdtmDl5EDJ8


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post #132 of 278 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 09:02 AM
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I will say, a little disappointed he didn't compare against the AAM finned cover, or at least publish the results if he did. But again, he is a business man and engineer, not a scientist (a scientist would publish all the results....climate scientists excluded).

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