2018 Build - Page 29 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
2013-2018 General Discussion General Chit Chat About the 2013 model year differences 6.7L 4th generation Cummins - NO ADVERTISING - Sponsored by: StarLite Diesel

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post #337 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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You already bored with the 5blade?
Yup.

Honestly with stock fuel I canít tell much of a difference in performance. Iíve done different combinations now that I have a 1.00 housing.
-467/1.00
-467/.90
-472/1.00
-472/.90

It all feels the same and I think I know why. Iím running 4.10ís on 33ís with max effort/low boost fueling. That alone already makes my truck snappy. 467..472...it all feels roughly the same. Nothing wows me. Granted my truck is still fast with either turbo. One is just a little louder than the other. Thatís about it.

I knew this going into it. I knew characteristics would be the same. Airflow would be similar. I guess after wanting something for so long (5 Blade), for years, and finally getting one, my response is more or less..meh.

Isnít it like that with most things in life. After years of eyeballing something and finally getting it..itís not what you had expected. Granted itís still powerful and still loud..just not what I expected.

I have a very peculiar taste as yíall may have seen over the years when it comes to modifications.

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post #338 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Part of me is willing to part ways with it and cut my losses. Another part of me wants to keep both just so I can have options in the future.

However the current plan is sell my 467 so that I have no choice but to keep this one. But if someone comes along and makes me an offer on this one I’d entertain it too.

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post #339 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 05:03 PM
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Bought time to sell the whole truck isnt it? 2020s will be out shortly.
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post #340 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by nick00less View Post
Yup.

Honestly with stock fuel I canít tell much of a difference in performance. Iíve done different combinations now that I have a 1.00 housing.
-467/1.00
-467/.90
-472/1.00
-472/.90

It all feels the same and I think I know why. Iím running 4.10ís on 33ís with max effort/low boost fueling. That alone already makes my truck snappy. 467..472...it all feels roughly the same. Nothing wows me. Granted my truck is still fast with either turbo. One is just a little louder than the other. Thatís about it.
You had a s465 at one point didnít ya? Which one did you like the best?

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post #341 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Bought time to sell the whole truck isnt it? 2020s will be out shortly.
Ive got way too much invested in this truck, itís too easy to work on, aftermarket parts are endless...etc

..so yah..

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You had a s465 at one point didnít ya? Which one did you like the best?
Man itís hard to say. 465, 467, 472....I canít really tell. Yes smaller always spools faster. But I feel like my setup makes it even harder to tell the difference.

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post #342 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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I was just wondering if you ran into problems with them.
Theyíve actually been problem free. Probably one of my favorite setups that Iíve built to date.

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post #343 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Took a break from the truck. Worked on my neighbors 392 and lowered it some. Sometimes itís nice working on something else for a change..





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post #344 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 03:03 PM
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I like that color. We rented a charger that color and the wife liked it. But it was a six cylinder!!


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2018 Ram 2500 4X4 SLT Bighorn White 4.10 Gears/Carli coils/295 Toyo AT2's /Full Console swop w shifter /Projector Headlights with HID's-LED Highs/ B&W Turnover Ball----
2017 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 Laramie , 35" Toyo AT's / Center Console Shifter Mod. SOLD---- 2012 Ram 2500 4X4 Crew-Silver- 4:10's / Carli 3" Coils w/35" Toyo AT2's / Ranch Hand Bumper / Center Console Swap w shifter SOLD!!!
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post #345 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 04:41 PM
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Awesome car. I’ve debated buying a used regular V8 one as a toy and building it the way I want. Wouldn’t have Hellcat power but would be an all around wicked car otherwise.

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post #346 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 03:35 AM
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Glad to hear you finally got your Mafia 5-Blade S472SX and spool up isnít much different. Could you do a little write up on the 5-blade (sound, do you like it or is it annoying? too loud for long road trips with family?) and the S472SX (where does it start to make boost? is there enough torque at 1500rpm to tow? spool up is a little slower but is there any smoke, is the lag just a little more time to spool or time to get to a higher rpm so it can spool (if that makes sense)?

You and I both have 4.10 gears, I have 34.6Ē tires but still a similar setup. They way the new trans tuning methods work, pedal position is the only variable that controls when the transmission shifts. Most of the other sensors, except transmission output speed, have been disabled. From the factory the 68rfe is a very quirky transmission that seems to be constantly unable to make up its mind what gear it should be in. So getting rid of a complicated algorithm with numerous different and sometimes conflicting sensor inputs, makes for a much more stable and consistent transmission behavior. However, without the ability to calculate load, tuners have to be able to really understand the torque curve and calculate exactly what x amount of pedal input, at y transmission output speed, means. Establishing different shift points based on pedal input or transmission output speed when slowing down is easy to tune for, but with overall gearing being much lower than stock, your torque or power is significantly different throughout the entire rpm band, engine is not loaded the same and boost is delayed and usually lower. Higher overall gearing than stock, loads engine more, making boost sooner and possibly higher max boost. So, tuning made for stock gearing works fine, even if you increase your overall gearing with bigger tires or have huge tires with a modest re-gearing, as long as it is stock or higher.

HPP and now CTT are experts when it comes to trans tuning and gearing. Other major tuners on this forum, not so much. I have tried 4 well known tuners, they were from the most mentioned tuners on this forum. The most popular tuner on this forum that is not CTT, couldnít write a trans tune for 4.10 gears on near stock tire size, that could downshift, at all. The only way I could get truck to downshift for a steep hill or to pass quickly, was 100% WOT pedal input, only because the 68rfe has an override that forces a downshift at WOT. I got a bit of attitude that I wasnít completely satisfied with their tune that was on like a million other diesel trucks without issue. I got one revision and I could get a downshift with slightly less than WOT, my CTS II showed somewhere over 80%. There is no way I could have towed and trying to pass someone, even slamming pedal to 80% or more, was embarrassing and resulted in tons of black smoke, the worst injector rattle I have ever heard and still took a couple seconds to complete shift. They didnít want to write another tune and even though I had an agreement before I purchased their tune, that 150% over injectors had been purchased and I was going to need a tune when they were installed, which I would pay for, they refused (said they were way too large for a truck completely built for 850+ hp). It was very ironic, since it was their employee that jumped into every injector thread on this forum and recommended getting bigger injectors (at least 100% overs) and their company would tune a shorter pulsewidth until you needed more from the injector.

I was somewhat impressed that they refunded every penny I gave them, but they ate up a bunch of my time and summer, which significantly delayed and shortened my families cross country vacation.Also very interesting, I told them flat out, that if they continued to advertise custom tuning and a certain employee of theirs kept posting on this forum to get bigger injectors, I would post the entire email exchange with their company. I havenít heard a peep from that employee or their company, since. I feel really bad because the employee was a great source of information and nothing he said was wrong, it was the company or at least the manager I talked to, that changed the policy.

I canít fit any bigger of tire under my truck without shelling out a ton of money on a full Thuren system. I am also not sure if 37ís are going to look weird with a smaller lift. Unless Thuren develops a bigger lift, I havenít been very impressed with anything else I looked at or researched.

I do wonder if having a higher gear ratio via larger tires might actually load engine more and improve bottom end grunt. The 4.10ís make truck feel lighter and towing or climbing grades seems effortless but truck never feels like it is working hard. I have to look at how quickly the speedometer goes from 50-100 or passing a single vehicle doing 55mph and by the time I get back in the right lane Iím doing 115+. Iíve been in friends trucks that are around 500hp and oversized tires, that feel really powerful. I have raced them and I leave them so fast that I think they failed to launch and still at the starting line, but they gave everything they had.

Lower gearing is just a completely different feeling and might be why your not more satisfied with your build. Dyno it, or go to the track, you might change your mind or at least have a new found respect for your beautiful truck.I also had to make it really clear to CTT that I wanted them to give me a real max effort tune because I planned on hitting the dyno and I had everything needed for 850+ , so I would be beyond disappointed if I didnít fall between 750-800 or better. I couldnít run level 4 of new max tune without very uncomfortable egtís, but could get by with 1 or 2 dyno pulls. Level 3 felt 200hp stronger than previous max effort tune on 4 and egtís stayed mostly safe on a wot run, level 2 was still more powerful than previous level 4 and 1 was supposed to be tow and still fast as heck. CTT also seems to not like going beyond a 2600 microsecond pulsewidth, which is not much fuel, with stock sticks, for a 72 or even 67mm turbo. The tuner I talked about earlier, didnít have issue with a 2850 pulsewidth on 65% sticks and it was a fairly noticeable difference, but I kinda needed a transmission that would downshift.

It costs around a grand, for a set of really good nozzles and install. A stock CP3 should handle 90hp and maybe even 125hp like mine. Heck if I lived anywhere near you, I would give you my 125 hp nozzles when the 150% overs go back in and install them for you, just for good conversation.and a few beers.

Good luck and donít give up on that beautiful truck. Tom J.
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post #347 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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I like that color. We rented a charger that color and the wife liked it. But it was a six cylinder!!


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6 cylinders..yuck!

Oh wait..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lins View Post
Awesome car. Iíve debated buying a used regular V8 one as a toy and building it the way I want. Wouldnít have Hellcat power but would be an all around wicked car otherwise.
Thatís exactly what my neighbor is doing. His last challenger was a hellcat. Then he sold it. Now heís having fun with this 392 making it similar to a hellcat.

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post #348 of 395 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Glad to hear you finally got your Mafia 5-Blade S472SX and spool up isn’t much different. Could you do a little write up on the 5-blade (sound, do you like it or is it annoying? too loud for long road trips with family?) and the S472SX (where does it start to make boost? is there enough torque at 1500rpm to tow? spool up is a little slower but is there any smoke, is the lag just a little more time to spool or time to get to a higher rpm so it can spool (if that makes sense)?

You and I both have 4.10 gears, I have 34.6” tires but still a similar setup. They way the new trans tuning methods work, pedal position is the only variable that controls when the transmission shifts. Most of the other sensors, except transmission output speed, have been disabled. From the factory the 68rfe is a very quirky transmission that seems to be constantly unable to make up its mind what gear it should be in. So getting rid of a complicated algorithm with numerous different and sometimes conflicting sensor inputs, makes for a much more stable and consistent transmission behavior. However, without the ability to calculate load, tuners have to be able to really understand the torque curve and calculate exactly what x amount of pedal input, at y transmission output speed, means. Establishing different shift points based on pedal input or transmission output speed when slowing down is easy to tune for, but with overall gearing being much lower than stock, your torque or power is significantly different throughout the entire rpm band, engine is not loaded the same and boost is delayed and usually lower. Higher overall gearing than stock, loads engine more, making boost sooner and possibly higher max boost. So, tuning made for stock gearing works fine, even if you increase your overall gearing with bigger tires or have huge tires with a modest re-gearing, as long as it is stock or higher.

HPP and now CTT are experts when it comes to trans tuning and gearing. Other major tuners on this forum, not so much. I have tried 4 well known tuners, they were from the most mentioned tuners on this forum. The most popular tuner on this forum that is not CTT, couldn’t write a trans tune for 4.10 gears on near stock tire size, that could downshift, at all. The only way I could get truck to downshift for a steep hill or to pass quickly, was 100% WOT pedal input, only because the 68rfe has an override that forces a downshift at WOT. I got a bit of attitude that I wasn’t completely satisfied with their tune that was on like a million other diesel trucks without issue. I got one revision and I could get a downshift with slightly less than WOT, my CTS II showed somewhere over 80%. There is no way I could have towed and trying to pass someone, even slamming pedal to 80% or more, was embarrassing and resulted in tons of black smoke, the worst injector rattle I have ever heard and still took a couple seconds to complete shift. They didn’t want to write another tune and even though I had an agreement before I purchased their tune, that 150% over injectors had been purchased and I was going to need a tune when they were installed, which I would pay for, they refused (said they were way too large for a truck completely built for 850+ hp). It was very ironic, since it was their employee that jumped into every injector thread on this forum and recommended getting bigger injectors (at least 100% overs) and their company would tune a shorter pulsewidth until you needed more from the injector.

I was somewhat impressed that they refunded every penny I gave them, but they ate up a bunch of my time and summer, which significantly delayed and shortened my families cross country vacation.Also very interesting, I told them flat out, that if they continued to advertise custom tuning and a certain employee of theirs kept posting on this forum to get bigger injectors, I would post the entire email exchange with their company. I haven’t heard a peep from that employee or their company, since. I feel really bad because the employee was a great source of information and nothing he said was wrong, it was the company or at least the manager I talked to, that changed the policy.

I can’t fit any bigger of tire under my truck without shelling out a ton of money on a full Thuren system. I am also not sure if 37’s are going to look weird with a smaller lift. Unless Thuren develops a bigger lift, I haven’t been very impressed with anything else I looked at or researched.

I do wonder if having a higher gear ratio via larger tires might actually load engine more and improve bottom end grunt. The 4.10’s make truck feel lighter and towing or climbing grades seems effortless but truck never feels like it is working hard. I have to look at how quickly the speedometer goes from 50-100 or passing a single vehicle doing 55mph and by the time I get back in the right lane I’m doing 115+. I’ve been in friends trucks that are around 500hp and oversized tires, that feel really powerful. I have raced them and I leave them so fast that I think they failed to launch and still at the starting line, but they gave everything they had.

Lower gearing is just a completely different feeling and might be why your not more satisfied with your build. Dyno it, or go to the track, you might change your mind or at least have a new found respect for your beautiful truck.I also had to make it really clear to CTT that I wanted them to give me a real max effort tune because I planned on hitting the dyno and I had everything needed for 850+ , so I would be beyond disappointed if I didn’t fall between 750-800 or better. I couldn’t run level 4 of new max tune without very uncomfortable egt’s, but could get by with 1 or 2 dyno pulls. Level 3 felt 200hp stronger than previous max effort tune on 4 and egt’s stayed mostly safe on a wot run, level 2 was still more powerful than previous level 4 and 1 was supposed to be tow and still fast as heck. CTT also seems to not like going beyond a 2600 microsecond pulsewidth, which is not much fuel, with stock sticks, for a 72 or even 67mm turbo. The tuner I talked about earlier, didn’t have issue with a 2850 pulsewidth on 65% sticks and it was a fairly noticeable difference, but I kinda needed a transmission that would downshift.

It costs around a grand, for a set of really good nozzles and install. A stock CP3 should handle 90hp and maybe even 125hp like mine. Heck if I lived anywhere near you, I would give you my 125 hp nozzles when the 150% overs go back in and install them for you, just for good conversation.and a few beers.

Good luck and don’t give up on that beautiful truck. Tom J.
The 5 blade is loud. The best way I can describe the sound is it doesn’t sound like your average turbo whistle. This turbo literally sounds like a jet. Picture yourself on a tarmac and the pilot is just playing with the throttle/lever pushing it back and forth really fast. Essentially with my trucks rpm fluctuating so much from driving that’s how it sounds, if that makes sense. It’s a loud whine that literally mimics that of a jet. I wish I could tell you how it does towing but I’ve never towed and probably never will. I drive a KW for a living so naturally I wanted a diesel as a daily driver. With my KW I get all the towing I want on my company’s dime, then I get to hop in my daily driver (Ram).

She starts building boost at around 13-1500 rpm. There’s zero smoke. I run max effort every day and she’s a blast to drive. Favorite part is accelerating on the highway. This truck may weigh close to 8000lbs but she doesn’t move like one. M

I agree with the lower gearing. Truck isn’t nearly working as hard. I’m ok with that. I haven’t built over 20lbs yet. I also haven’t WOT either. Too scared I’ll break something. I don’t mind spending a couple g’s here and there but not close to 10g all at once for a transmission!

I stinking love CTT. They’re hands down awesome! When I blimp the throttle the entire truck jumps forward. I too know the feeling of leaving someone behind. Stinkin love it.

Injectors will be next. And i will gladly take you up on that offer. DosXX please

I won’t give up on this truck. My last two yes. This one however is a keeper.


PS

You’ll never catch this truck at the track unless I’m trading it in the next day
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