Sonnax or bd-power line booster?? - Page 2 - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum
07.5 - 09 3rd Gen 6.7L Powertrain Discussion of components that are directly involved in the power production and all that is needed to get and keep the truck moving . Engine, Transmission, etc...NO ADVERTISING

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post #13 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 08:00 PM
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Who is making an aftermarket valvebody for the 68, i have not been able to find them listed in any of the popular tranny sites.

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post #14 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 07:51 AM
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I don't know whether anyone is selling an aftermarket 68RFE valve body assy. My point is, if someone IS selling a "rebuilt" VB assy, I would be real careful about buying it, unless you knew that the SSV bore had been either (1) confirmed to still be within original print tolerance for a new part, (2) machined oversize with oversize SSV plugs installed, or (3) anodized (and within print specs).

The Mopar service VB assy for 68RFE (68033980AB) is a brand-new (not rebuilt) VB assy that is anodized and meets all print specs. That is your best bet if you need a replacement VB.
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post #15 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Alright... Went to the dealer today. They drove my truck around with the star scan tool hooked up and said that everything was fine and that it must be my chip making it act up. I was pissed so I went and drove it around on stock and made it go into limp. So I come back they hooked up the tool and told me that it was a pressure related code and went into limp in 3rd and was trying to engage 3 gears at once. The mechanic said he's almost certain it's not the pump or 4-c pack. He thinks it's electrical related... Trans computer, or selinoid pack. When he replaced the tc he said all the insides looked good including the pump, etc. He wants to have the tool hooked up and driving it when it goes into limp so he can be certain it's not mechanical related. Therefore he is going to drive the truck home after work tmra and hope that it acts up.

What you think te??

Thanks!

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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-12-2011, 08:22 AM
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It would be nice if he'd tell you the actual fault code rather than saying "pressure related code." A low line pressure code (P0868) will NOT put you in limp-in (at least, not on a 2007 truck). For that matter, neither will ANY of the line pressure faults. So something else is going on (again, I'd bet it's internal slippage). Not that low line pressure couldn't be your problem - it just won't (by itself) put you in limp-in. Low line pressure will allow the trans to slip, and THAT will put you in limp-in. And by the way, limp-in is 4th gear (direct gear).

You really need to find out exactly what fault codes are set. It is possible to have a hardware failure in the TCM, but that usually presents itself as a solenoid circuit error, which is strictly an electrical (not a "pressure related") fault. So I don't think you have a TCM problem.

When your tech says "pressure related" does he related to overall line pressure, or related to the pressure in one particular clutch?

I'm gonna assume here that you are getting low line pressure. If your tech thinks that is control-related, there is a simple test: Connect a mechanical pressure gauge to the line pressure sensor port (your dealer has a special tool for doing this). Start the engine and let it idle in Park. Is the pressure LESS THAN the desired line pressure (DLP)? If not, warm it up until it starts going into limp, then check it again at idle. Odds are it will be less than DLP (this is not a problem by itself, since normally as soon as you open the throttle and engine speed comes up, line pressure jumps up to match DLP). Now, with the truck still idling in Park, disconnect the 23-way electrical harness from the transmission (driver's side). This disconnects the line pressure control (TCM) from the trans. Did the line pressure on the gauge jump up to a much higher value? If not, then the TCM and wiring are NOT causing a low-line-pressure problem. The pressure you're seeing is all the pump can make (mechanically). If the pressure DOES jump up, then the TCM was deliberately "turning down" the line pressure.

Note that if this test says the pump is bad, there is still a SLIM possibility that the solenoid (which controls line pressure) is failed mechanically, so it is "turning down" line pressure even when the TCM is not commanding it to do so. But that would be a VERY RARE failure (not likely). And if the solenoid is suspect, then at your mileage you should replace the entire valve body assy anyway (new VB will include a new solenoid).

Also note that this test must be properly understood. Normal "max pump pressure" in Park will be 160-170 psi. DLP (at idle in Park) may be 60-120 psi. If DLP is 60 psi, the TCM should be "cranking down" the line pressure (from 160 to 60 psi). So if you pull the 23-way and line pressure jumps to 160, that doesn't mean the TCM is bad. Under these conditions, that would be normal. But let's say DLP is 120 and actual line pressure is only 90 psi. The TCM SHOULD be commanding max line pressure (to try to crank it up to 120). So either the pump can't make more than 90, or the TCM isn't commanding the LP like it should. At that point, pulling the 23-way will show whether the pump is the cause (line pressure stays at 90), or the TCM is bad (pressure jumps up to 120 or more). Hope this makes sense.

The dealer can also read the duty cycle of the LP control solenoid (also known as the VFS) using the scan tool. At normal temps, the min duty cycle is about 5.1%. So if he sees a 5% duty cycle, that means the TCM is calling for "max" line pressure. At that point (no matter what DLP is), pulling the 23-way should result in little or no change in actual line pressure. On the other hand, if the duty cycle is, say, 15%, then pulling the 23-way should cause a change in LP (and would not mean the TCM was necessarily bad).

A few more notes: Pulling the 23-way will blow a bunch of trans faults (duh), so you'll need to clear them afterwards. You must have the engine running before you pull the 23-way, since once you disconnect it, you'll have no Neutral safety signal and the engine can't be started. As I said, "low" LP (below DLP) at idle is NOT a problem by itself. The true test is, does LP match DLP whenever the engine speed is around 1200 RPM or higher? If LP matches DLP above 1200 RPM, then your line pressure is OK.

Sorry for the long-winded response..... but then again I imagine you guys probably LIKE a long-winded response like this....
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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-12-2011, 04:31 PM
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CWB. I dont know what type of phone you have but if you run an android based phone buy and dowlaod thwe torque app and get a OBDII bluetooth adapter. I can read every code my truck says. ECM and TCM. My smarty will only tell me the P0700 but the torque app will tell me the exact code that triggers the 700 code. I know the P0729 and P0735 are 5 and 6 gear slip codes. I have had one imput related code. Thanks to my local dealer they finished off my trans when he was out "testing" the truck. So if your not in a rush to fix it, get the app and OBDII connector and see what your truck says.

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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-15-2011, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TransEngineer View Post
It would be nice if he'd tell you the actual fault code rather than saying "pressure related code." A low line pressure code (P0868) will NOT put you in limp-in (at least, not on a 2007 truck). For that matter, neither will ANY of the line pressure faults. So something else is going on (again, I'd bet it's internal slippage). Not that low line pressure couldn't be your problem - it just won't (by itself) put you in limp-in. Low line pressure will allow the trans to slip, and THAT will put you in limp-in. And by the way, limp-in is 4th gear (direct gear).

You really need to find out exactly what fault codes are set. It is possible to have a hardware failure in the TCM, but that usually presents itself as a solenoid circuit error, which is strictly an electrical (not a "pressure related") fault. So I don't think you have a TCM problem.

When your tech says "pressure related" does he related to overall line pressure, or related to the pressure in one particular clutch?

I'm gonna assume here that you are getting low line pressure. If your tech thinks that is control-related, there is a simple test: Connect a mechanical pressure gauge to the line pressure sensor port (your dealer has a special tool for doing this). Start the engine and let it idle in Park. Is the pressure LESS THAN the desired line pressure (DLP)? If not, warm it up until it starts going into limp, then check it again at idle. Odds are it will be less than DLP (this is not a problem by itself, since normally as soon as you open the throttle and engine speed comes up, line pressure jumps up to match DLP). Now, with the truck still idling in Park, disconnect the 23-way electrical harness from the transmission (driver's side). This disconnects the line pressure control (TCM) from the trans. Did the line pressure on the gauge jump up to a much higher value? If not, then the TCM and wiring are NOT causing a low-line-pressure problem. The pressure you're seeing is all the pump can make (mechanically). If the pressure DOES jump up, then the TCM was deliberately "turning down" the line pressure.

Note that if this test says the pump is bad, there is still a SLIM possibility that the solenoid (which controls line pressure) is failed mechanically, so it is "turning down" line pressure even when the TCM is not commanding it to do so. But that would be a VERY RARE failure (not likely). And if the solenoid is suspect, then at your mileage you should replace the entire valve body assy anyway (new VB will include a new solenoid).

Also note that this test must be properly understood. Normal "max pump pressure" in Park will be 160-170 psi. DLP (at idle in Park) may be 60-120 psi. If DLP is 60 psi, the TCM should be "cranking down" the line pressure (from 160 to 60 psi). So if you pull the 23-way and line pressure jumps to 160, that doesn't mean the TCM is bad. Under these conditions, that would be normal. But let's say DLP is 120 and actual line pressure is only 90 psi. The TCM SHOULD be commanding max line pressure (to try to crank it up to 120). So either the pump can't make more than 90, or the TCM isn't commanding the LP like it should. At that point, pulling the 23-way will show whether the pump is the cause (line pressure stays at 90), or the TCM is bad (pressure jumps up to 120 or more). Hope this makes sense.

The dealer can also read the duty cycle of the LP control solenoid (also known as the VFS) using the scan tool. At normal temps, the min duty cycle is about 5.1%. So if he sees a 5% duty cycle, that means the TCM is calling for "max" line pressure. At that point (no matter what DLP is), pulling the 23-way should result in little or no change in actual line pressure. On the other hand, if the duty cycle is, say, 15%, then pulling the 23-way should cause a change in LP (and would not mean the TCM was necessarily bad).

A few more notes: Pulling the 23-way will blow a bunch of trans faults (duh), so you'll need to clear them afterwards. You must have the engine running before you pull the 23-way, since once you disconnect it, you'll have no Neutral safety signal and the engine can't be started. As I said, "low" LP (below DLP) at idle is NOT a problem by itself. The true test is, does LP match DLP whenever the engine speed is around 1200 RPM or higher? If LP matches DLP above 1200 RPM, then your line pressure is OK.

Sorry for the long-winded response..... but then again I imagine you guys probably LIKE a long-winded response like this....
Wow very informative post. Thank you! I want to show the dealers mechanic this info but have not had the time to.

They did figure out that my tranny problem was the selinoid pack? They made it sound pretty conviencing so i had them go ahead and replace it. They did tell me that my tranny will not hold what the chip is putting out and to call suncost lol

'08 3500, 4x4, H&S, Southbend
'91 D250, 4x4
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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-15-2011, 09:43 AM
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So, if they "figured out" that the solenoid was the problem, and they replaced it, then your truck is running fine now, and you have no more trans problems, right?
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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-15-2011, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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So, if they "figured out" that the solenoid was the problem, and they replaced it, then your truck is running fine now, and you have no more trans problems, right?
Well... they drove it and said it was fine. I drove it about 2 miles home and it seemed to be fine but i have not had the opportunity to drive it long enough to tell or to pull anything. Ill know after today hopefully!

TE what do you think is a good upgrade to do to the trans to keep it from being the weak link? I know Suncoast has some different options to help without blowing a full 10 grand on a built tranny.

'08 3500, 4x4, H&S, Southbend
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-15-2011, 11:31 AM
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On a 2007 truck, I would recommend replacing the valve body assy with a new Mopar part (to get an anodized VB).

The OD clutch is the normal "weak link", however I do not know of any upgrades you can do for it (I am unfamiliar with what might be available in the aftermarket - I only work on production components). The production OD clutch is a single-sided, 12-disc clutch pack. There is not physically room (inside the input clutch retainer) to fit more discs in. I suppose using a different OD friction material (with a higher coefficient of friction) would help, but then that could also lead to shift quality problems. As I said, I don't know whether anyone sells such an OD clutch or not.
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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-16-2011, 09:22 AM
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On a 2007 truck, I would recommend replacing the valve body assy with a new Mopar part (to get an anodized VB).

The OD clutch is the normal "weak link", however I do not know of any upgrades you can do for it (I am unfamiliar with what might be available in the aftermarket - I only work on production components). The production OD clutch is a single-sided, 12-disc clutch pack. There is not physically room (inside the input clutch retainer) to fit more discs in. I suppose using a different OD friction material (with a higher coefficient of friction) would help, but then that could also lead to shift quality problems. As I said, I don't know whether anyone sells such an OD clutch or not.
TE, What year did the factory start using the anodized valve body in new trucks?

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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-16-2011, 10:06 AM
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Question

Are these line boosters designed to help with transmission shudder problems or feeling? Would a NEW 2010 stock truck benefit from this? Thanks for any input.

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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 04-16-2011, 10:41 AM
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Are these line boosters designed to help with transmission shudder problems or feeling? Would a NEW 2010 stock truck benefit from this? Thanks for any input.
I have two trucks that i put the foolers on,they were both starting to slip and shutter. After the install i backed the tune down to 120 and they have been fine since. Now keep in mind they are also being drove easier due to the fact of just trying to make it last another 20k miles. I would definitely give it a try,its very cheap considering it could make your tranny last a bit longer.
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